How To Leverage SEO for Exponential Growth With Expert Bear Newman

Episode 218

Unlock the strategies that can send your business skyrocketing in growth as we sit down with digital marketing guru Bear Newman. This episode takes you through the transformative journey of SEO mastery to create a commanding online presence that ensures your website isn’t just a drop in the digital ocean. Bear joins us from Bear Fox Marketing, where he has already turned the tide for numerous clients, sharing how one particular approach multiplied a client’s web traffic six-fold in just half a year.

Bear doesn’t hold back on the hard-hitting topics, including the controversial use of AI-generated content and its effect on SEO. If you’re wrestling with whether to revamp existing website material or push out new content, Bear’s expert insights will guide you towards a blend that champions quality over quantity. We also dissect the art of running Google Ads that pack a punch, even for low-cost e-commerce products, and how understanding the lifetime value of a customer can be your ace in the hole.

Eager to get a taste of what Bear Fox Marketing can do for you? By the end of our chat, you’ll know exactly how to join forces with Bear’s team for a consultation that’s high on value and free from aggressive sales pressure. Tune in for an episode brimming with actionable advice that promises to fuel your marketing efforts and help your business stand out in a crowded marketplace.

How can the guests contact?  website, email, social?

Website: bearfoxmarketing.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bearfoxmarketing/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bearfoxmarketingllc/followers/mutualOnly

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bearfoxmarketing/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@bearfoxmarketing9194

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00;00;24;08 – 00;00;54;15
Unknown
Welcome, everyone to the Firing Demand podcast. On today’s episode, we have the privilege to interview Bear. Neuman Bear is an accomplished digital marketer and author with over 15 years of experience in the industry. Throughout his career, here has worked with numerous businesses, ranging from startups to large corporations with revenues exceeding 400 million. With his expertise in digital marketing, Bear has strategized and implemented custom marketing strategies for hundreds of companies, helping them achieve their goals.

00;00;54;20 – 00;01;11;13
Unknown
We’re very excited to have Baer on the podcast today diving into all things marketing. Welcome to the show, Bear Lake, David. Appreciate it. And really excited to be here. Absolutely. So to start things off, can you please share with our audience a little bit about yourself and your path to becoming the president and founder of Bear Fox Marketing?

00;01;11;13 – 00;01;33;00
Unknown
So I got really a lot of enjoyment from learning about SEO and studying it and essentially just online marketing. Really enjoyed it. Got an internal job here locally in Boise, Idaho, doing the keyword research for 53,000 craft products that they were going to be selling. So worked on that project. Took me about nine months. Don’t be fooled by the face of the name.

00;01;33;01 – 00;01;48;25
Unknown
I might look like him in the crafting, but I’m really not. Crocheting is not really my thing, but that’s why I got into. So that was my kind of started as SEO and I loved it. I love seeing the results. I love seeing pages going into the top rankings, customers coming in and finding what they want to find and really enjoy it.

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00;01;48;25 – 00;02;12;22
Unknown
So I moved from there into running a publishing company and I managed their SEO, all of their monetization strategies, everything. And when Google did a massive update to its algorithm back in 2012, the business model of that company was no longer viable. And a lot of their really all the revenues depend were dependent upon Google organic traffic. And there were so many things that had been adjusted that they wanted to essentially close shop.

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00;02;12;22 – 00;02;30;00
Unknown
And instead of getting another company internally, I said, You know what? I’ve had enough people ask me for my expertise to figure out this whole SEO mystery. That is, I just start my own agency started there for a few years, and then my business partner, Glenn Moore, we met up and he was frustrated with his lack of results.

00;02;30;00 – 00;02;48;18
Unknown
He has some bigger brands and I said, Just keep this same budget you have. You’re currently paying your agency in California, the big fancy one in California. Let me show you what I can do is like you’re on, let’s see it. And in a matter of six months, I was able to take and said he was going about 10% per year from the previous agency and they were up to about 6000 unique visitors organically.

00;02;48;18 – 00;03;06;01
Unknown
And Google, I jumped in and took it from 6000 to 28000 in about six months. There was a little bit of a unique situation, but ultimately I was going to observe races. He enjoyed it so much. We decided to team up and form bear box marketing and we’ve been moving forward and have a great time ever since. Yeah, that’s cool.

00;03;06;01 – 00;03;25;11
Unknown
Thanks for sharing, Bear, and welcome to the show. Excited to kind of dig into this. I love the skill of marketing for the listeners. Can you share with with your wealth of experience, you know, taking clients from, you know, 6000 unique to 28,000, it’s a pretty big job. Can you share with the audience kind of like maybe your your high level formula for a marketing plan for, say, a newer business?

00;03;25;11 – 00;03;43;14
Unknown
What should they be focusing on? What what are the things that you would advise them to to focus on? Yeah, So if you’re just getting started, I would really focus on the website you have and what you want the visitor to do. So each page should have a function. A lot of times people will come in the kind of pray and pray approach where they just throw up content.

00;03;43;14 – 00;03;59;13
Unknown
There’s no resource behind it. The fundamental key behind the SEO is that it’s competition based and so really there’s only so many spots on that top spot. If you’re new, you’re not going to be favored by Google. Google essentially doesn’t trust you to put you in that spot. So they put bad websites there and makes them look bad.

00;03;59;13 – 00;04;20;01
Unknown
So they want to make sure the website is trustworthy. It starts with the on site content, the site structure and understanding what it is you want from that page. Do you want them to call you? Do you want them to learn more about your product? Do you want them to buy whatever that case might be and make sure that page is comparable and even better than what your competitors are.

00;04;20;01 – 00;04;37;16
Unknown
So make sure your offerings better. The content is better, The title, the little things that the title tags, better descriptions, just all the things that go into making a page solid are really high and tight, and you’ve got a direct purpose behind each page of content that you create. I’m going to follow up question on that. So you’re talking about page health.

00;04;37;16 – 00;04;57;05
Unknown
So use an analogy. When you go to the doctor, they take your height, weight, blood pressure, you know, these these indicators of health. And so when you click on a website or are working on one of your clients websites, what are those indicators of health? Yeah, great question. Really, it starts with, I would say the title tag and people are like, okay, I’ll give the title.

00;04;57;05 – 00;05;17;10
Unknown
It’s like simply stated, that bright blue hyperlink when you Google something on Google, the bright blue section that you says what the pages and then beneath it submitted description. That title tag, you have about 58 characters that you have to work with 55 to 58 characters. That is your title tag. That is going to make a huge difference in impact in how Google ranks you and what you’re going to be ranking for.

00;05;17;10 – 00;05;34;27
Unknown
So that’s really kind of one most critical pieces. The next piece is to make sure you’re met as a description is there, it’s on point, and then you have to have a certain amount of length and just value to the content. People will say, Well, it needs to be 500 words. What needs to be 2000 words? And my answer to that is yes, depending on who you’re competing against.

00;05;34;28 – 00;06;03;11
Unknown
If you have 2000 words when all of your competition have 500 and they’re ranking number one and number two, you probably don’t need 2000 words. I would focus on understanding who you’re competing against and why what they’re doing that already has that top ranking and make it your own and focus on the value so you can kind of have your general parameters of how much content should be on this page, what you should be focusing on as far as the keywords being used, but then really understand the purpose of the page and what you want to get from it.

00;06;03;11 – 00;06;22;00
Unknown
But really making sure your titles there, the content is there, it’s helpful. So focus on the value that that content brings or whatever you’re trying to sell. And then ultimately when we get into there’s a couple of areas, there’s the onsite health and then there’s the technical element of a website making sure it’s fast. It can be scanned by Google.

00;06;22;00 – 00;06;35;22
Unknown
I’ve seen a number of sites that they actually have a fast Web site, but the programing was done in a way that Google could read it. They actually told Google not to index the page, and so they were never getting any kind of traffic. It was kind of a mess up by their developer, but I see it all the time.

00;06;35;22 – 00;06;52;29
Unknown
So just the fundamentals, making sure you don’t have duplicate content. A lot of people will repurpose their content, but it’s so close to the initial page that they create that it starts creating duplicates and so Google gets confused which page it should rank. Is it this one or is that new one? You just update it and all of a sudden you’re competing with yourself.

00;06;52;29 – 00;07;12;02
Unknown
And Google’s response is, I don’t know which one, so I’m not going to rank either one and you shoot yourself in the foot. So there’s nothing a list you can go through. Those are the most basic ones, but it can get a little bit technical. But for the most part, SEO can definitely get complicated. Google uses about 220 plus variables in its ranking algorithm.

00;07;12;02 – 00;07;37;21
Unknown
Conceptually, it’s really not that complicated. If you kind of do the basic blocking and tackling, shall we say, you stand a pretty good chance of ranking another ranking, but ranking fairly quickly panning out who you’re competing against. One question that I seems like we can’t get through a podcast lately without talking about AI. And so in terms of Google and I, you know, in our companies, we use AI content for our brands, for the most part, A.I. with the human touch, I would add.

00;07;37;24 – 00;07;59;19
Unknown
And so moving forward in 2024, for anybody using AI content, what do you think is Google ranking them alongside other human written content? Like what are you saying? And kind of what is your advice to your clients on AI content? So I love it. I think it’s great it’s here to stay. It’s not going anywhere. It’s ongoing to become more and more influential with the content being created.

00;07;59;23 – 00;08;30;07
Unknown
That being said, if you’re using A.I. to augment and improve the quality, the quality of the content you’re creating, you’re probably going to be good to go making sure rich people enjoy it. If you’re using A.I. to cut corners, it will blow up in your face. Google has been the most aggressive in this past year for its algorithm or fundamental algorithm updates to combat bad A.I. content that I’ve ever seen in any of your past obviously is targeted directly at AI, but their core updates are really getting aggressive.

00;08;30;07 – 00;08;53;16
Unknown
So if you are, it’s obvious that Google can scan a website and to a degree it can determine if it was an AI created piece of content, if it flag. So that’s the 100% and it’s considered low value. Google will not only penalize that page, it will penalize your entire site. And so making sure your content is good across the board is going to be critical that you’re using it to make it better and not to cut corners.

00;08;53;19 – 00;09;09;06
Unknown
Okay. One last follow up on that and then I’ll throw it back to David. Now, if you have a Web site and you’re using A.I. content, is there a way to go and check somewhere on Google to find out if you’ve been penalized for that? Or how do you know when you’ve been other the your traffic goes down, your rank and settle down.

00;09;09;06 – 00;09;26;28
Unknown
Other than that, is there a way to know if you have like a checkbox or something on Google somewhere for a panel, you know, for being penalized? Excellent question. Yes, there is. So there’s tools out there. There’s a lot of tools. My personal favorite is A.H. Reps e-comm. They’re one of the biggest ones. They’ve got the second largest backlink database or linked database in the world.

00;09;26;28 – 00;09;49;04
Unknown
They’re second only to Google. That being said, they’re not as big as Google, so they do the best they can to keep up. But you can sign up for our free account and you can look at the data associated with your website and your organic traffic. And at the bottom of that graph where they’re saying, okay, you’ve got a thousand or 10,000 or a thousand visitors, you can see the traffic fluctuations over the past five years and just specifically this past year, what you want to focus on.

00;09;49;04 – 00;10;10;28
Unknown
And they actually have little Google tags across the bottom of the timeline. And if your traffic drop lines up perfectly, one of those massive Google updates, you’ve been hit on a graphs on the timeline. They they like tag it with like major core updates or something. And then if you get if you’re correlating it with that. Okay don’t know just to throw this out there, if you find that it’s actually a good thing.

00;10;10;28 – 00;10;27;13
Unknown
One of my biggest frustrations is the site’s not performing like it should and I don’t know why. Like, is it the title tags? Is it the links? Did someone try and spam us with bad links to try and take us down? Is it the content? Is it not up to par? Like what is it? It could be again, dozens or even hundreds of variables.

00;10;27;13 – 00;10;46;17
Unknown
So if I can go and find that in a matter of 15 seconds for my site and see airlines are perfect with the Google update, go through and find out specifically what that update was targeting picture content and you should bounce back at the beginning of the episode you had talked about and pray, right, Just that lots of media kind of throwing it out and hoping that it works.

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00;10;46;17 – 00;11;11;04
Unknown
Well. I think this is something that a lot of business owners run into when they’re getting started. They have a limited marketing budget and they must ask themselves, where can I put these dollars to work, where they’re going to work the hardest? And so what digital marketing channels generally produce the highest ROI. And if you can answer this without saying it depends, you get bonus points, or at least if you say it depends, yeah, give some context behind it.

00;11;11;04 – 00;11;30;04
Unknown
Absolutely. Hands down SEO and email. Believe it or not, those are going to be your biggest. If your email is not making close to 50% of your online revenue, you’re missing the boat. You really dropped the ball there. So definitely have a good email campaign and again, you can actually combine the two. So to your question, I’d say those top level are the best channels.

00;11;30;04 – 00;11;56;07
Unknown
However, it also depends on the timeframe. So if you need revenue coming in tomorrow, SCA is not going to cut it. And so from a long term perspective, those are two biggest channels. From an immediate perspective, you want to focus on something like Tick Tock or Facebook or potentially LinkedIn, where you can run an ad, set the ad up, turn it on pay, and you instantly got eyeballs impressions, tried to come into your site, and that’s going to produce your most immediate ROI in your answer email marketing.

00;11;56;15 – 00;12;18;08
Unknown
To me that is fairly self-explanatory. You need email addresses and you need content on the echo. I would imagine we price some listeners out there that have an active website. They may have a couple of hundred blog articles. They’re asking themselves, Am I better off optimizing my existing blog articles and pages, or should I continue to produce more content?

00;12;18;08 – 00;12;42;07
Unknown
And so when they’re making that decision, what would be And I just throw out blog articles and maybe there’s other things to consider, but is there when someone’s faced with that decision, optimize or produce more content, What would be some helpful things to look at my boat. And yes, it would be to optimize. So not more content. And I have a little different philosophy on this that what you probably have heard is content is king.

00;12;42;07 – 00;13;03;27
Unknown
Everyone content is gaining more content, more content. I disagree. I would say marketable content is king. And so if you’re just producing content to produce content, generally speaking is probably going to be low quality content. I’d much rather have one piece of really good content that ranks really well, hundreds of pages that actually don’t rank very well. So I would focus on that content and make it better.

00;13;03;27 – 00;13;21;20
Unknown
And the truth is, if you have hundreds of blog content, pages of blog content that don’t produce any kind of traffic, there’s a good chance that content is actually penalized on your website. And you’d see bigger jumps in traffic by selecting which pages to deactivate and actually get rid of. Google will see kind of more of a focus.

00;13;21;20 – 00;13;38;29
Unknown
The contents gone. And with these algorithm updates, one thing to take into account, I’ve seen multiple instances of this where if you have 100 pages of content and 20 of the 100 are really good, you got great traffic coming in, the other 80 are just kind of there. They’re not really doing much. You create the content, so you leave it up on your Web site.

00;13;38;29 – 00;13;55;18
Unknown
Those 80 pages can actually get your other 20 penalized and you can lose ranking for that. So that when I talked about how aggressive Google is with its ranking algorithm, it’s one thing to find all the content on your site. And if it’s deeming that a lot of the content isn’t quality, they actually penalize the entire site. And in the past they’ve never done that.

00;13;55;18 – 00;14;18;16
Unknown
They’ve done more on the actual pages and it would lower them down. Now that site itself is getting hit. Have you work with clients for you? You’ll go in. Your recommendation is delete this content? Absolutely. Yep. That that’s interesting. That’s really interesting. And you hear content is king across the board. So deleting content seems counterintuitive but that’s if you you’re going in deciding to make recommendations on what pages to do.

00;14;18;21 – 00;14;36;24
Unknown
Is there a certain line that you would drop? Would you say, where’s 80% of my traffic coming from? Or where would you draw that threshold for deleting content? Below that I would first are looking at what pages you have that don’t have any traffic coming in at all. That’s for the biggest indicator. And before I would cut them, I would ask why is it not getting any traffic?

00;14;36;24 – 00;14;53;04
Unknown
Is it because Google has it indexed and isn’t even willing to serve it up? Is there something wrong with your site that is preventing Google from indexing it? A lot of what we call free one redirects one page to another page. You have too many of those. Like, is there something structurally wrong with your site that makes Google not want to rank it?

00;14;53;04 – 00;15;10;21
Unknown
And if the answer is no, everything’s fine. Google’s doesn’t want to rank it. I would start there. I was like cutting those pages and you can, you know, save the pages to repurpose later. But I would start cutting and you can do it in a systematic way. So there’s 100 pages and you find that 30 of them have no traffic and see what happens to your site depend on.

00;15;10;21 – 00;15;28;17
Unknown
When Google scans your site, you should see results within really a couple of days, potentially a couple of weeks. The reason SEO is difficult to say a specific time frame is Google deliberately delays any results that you get to see in the SERPs so that you don’t know what it is you did exactly that made it jump up.

00;15;28;17 – 00;15;48;01
Unknown
So Google is combating bad Web sites as well as SEO professionals that can really dial in and kind of know the ins and outs and crack the code. And so they’re really trying to keep a good product while combating the spammers and not revealing their secrets about what you exactly should be doing to make your site dominate. Interesting.

00;15;48;01 – 00;16;07;01
Unknown
So I want to dig in just a little bit more before we pivot. And one is, what is there a traffic? Is there a like, I guess a low threshold? You said no traffic. What if it’s getting ten visitors a month? Like, would there be a what is the low point? Let’s say you had 200 articles and you know, and the top ten are getting the bulk of the traffic and then it tapers off.

00;16;07;01 – 00;16;33;18
Unknown
Where would you draw that line? Zero traffic ten and 100 a mod like how would you kind of analyze that? Great question. And this is where SEO is a little bit complicated and the it depends is such a common response in SEO because all of the variability of the site. So if you have a local website in your say you’re a plumber and you’re getting 100 visitors per month and you’ve got a good conversion rate, you’re getting new business coming in, ten visitors for that website is great.

00;16;33;18 – 00;16;51;02
Unknown
So I would keep here, but if you’re getting 100, you know, say 50,000 visitors to your website and you’ve got some page two doing ten, I would absolutely cut those and I’ll probably go a lot deeper than that for my numbers perspective to cut it. The other question is you had mentioned I’m going to go do this after this podcast, so hopefully people are listening, might go do the same thing.

00;16;51;02 – 00;17;13;04
Unknown
And so one thing you mentioned was to trim them but not delete them. Maybe you add them back later, maybe you trim them, go fix them, and then put it back onto the site later. Would you instead of like going in and actually deleting that post, would you go in and and make it non-visible to be indexed? And so then Google just won’t see it and then you could fix it and then go check that and make it active again.

00;17;13;04 – 00;17;36;16
Unknown
Or would you just delete the post if you can make it no index and make sure it’s done correctly, then I would probably just make it inactive and then fix it and then repost the later, update the content and repost later so it show up as a new page. I guess the problem is some of the plug ins and some if you’re doing it yourself and you’re not really content with the way you’re doing it, Google has been known to still index that kind of content or keep track of it.

00;17;36;16 – 00;17;53;15
Unknown
And so I’m a big advocate of only giving Google the information I wanted to have and run into problems where you think it’s inactive and it’s actually not. So it is still being counted against you kind of situation. So as long as you are confident, making it bulletproof that yes, this is an active Google is not indexing or crawling it.

00;17;53;15 – 00;18;10;10
Unknown
That’s the big question. Another one for any of the listeners that are, you know, putting content on their site and they’re delving into SEO. We we were hit with an update I think it was at which it was an update in 23, maybe summer ish where we had dozens of our pages. In some cases it was over 100 know indexed in.

00;18;10;10 – 00;18;29;06
Unknown
It was the reason. And GSC, you can kind of dig into GSC and look in there and it’ll say indexed, no scan or indexed. There’s reasons why Google are not indexing these articles. There’s a couple of them in there. We had hundreds on and so we had to go in and manually look at them and see why didn’t Google index them and then awesome to index again.

00;18;29;06 – 00;18;45;11
Unknown
Have you seen that any of your clients and how do you recommend if Google scans it? It’s that’s what it is. It’s scanned. No index, meaning they looked at it and they’re like, this is this is not good. How do you go and fix that to get them to index it? So a lot of times, again, this is where it gets a little bit complicated more into the weeds.

00;18;45;11 – 00;19;02;04
Unknown
It could be a number of factors that they used to find incredible. They don’t anymore. There could be three redirects in place that are essentially Google responds like, Well, that’s too deep. I’m not going to scan that the links broken in some way. So it just is a challenge for a good indexes. So I’ve seen Google. I’m more proactive as far as blogging.

00;19;02;04 – 00;19;18;12
Unknown
Hey, all of this content. Yeah, we’re not going to index it. We’ll figure out why I like tools. When I first I work the web with my business partner. I think I use six or seven different SEO tools. And, you know, his response was to ask me if I needed counseling for my software addiction. So I’m loving the data.

00;19;18;12 – 00;19;39;15
Unknown
I’m all about proofing the data. So if I’ve got multiple sources on all these third party software, SEO softwares, a lot of them are projections. They do scan websites, they keep the top ten pages of keyword projections. And so they’re saying, well, you might have 5000 words, you’re ranking four on pages or through ten. But the reality is a lot of those are not necessarily for sure.

00;19;39;15 – 00;19;57;16
Unknown
So they’re kind of guessing. So if you can have other data that canal validate, well, Google is telling you that’s something I always like to do. One of my favorite softwares is Screaming Frog. It’s out of the UK. It’s a fantastic software. They get all kinds of insights and I’ve found holes seem rash, scan tools, age four scan tools.

00;19;57;16 – 00;20;16;15
Unknown
They’re not as solid as I would like them to be. And so if I can do two or three scans of the software, if it’s really give me problems, have another one that you can rely on that’s solid is usually what I’m looking for. So I always look to validate that data first, make sure I’ve got a solid understanding of why I think this is the problem, and then I move forward with possible fixes.

00;20;16;15 – 00;20;36;27
Unknown
Excellent. One last question, then I’ll kick it over. David Linking this is a big topic in SEO world and you know, if you’re in e-commerce, look, a lot of our listeners put in content on your sites, you hear of linking. Can you at a high level can you explain what linking is and then maybe describe what you advise the clients on and we’ll get a little bit even deeper internal linking and external linking.

00;20;37;00 – 00;20;55;17
Unknown
And then what do you recommend on both of those? So linking in its simplest form is simply one website with a hyperlink that blue click here linking to another website, the homepage a page specifically within that website, but the two are essentially connected by that hyperlink. There’s a couple of things to look at. So we’re talking to external and internal.

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00;20;55;17 – 00;21;22;15
Unknown
On the internal, you want to make sure your internal linking is done in a way that you can actually tell Google This page is really important. They call them pillar pages. Make sure this page is kind of a cornerstone of whether it be a service, whether it be a product. This is really important. And so any blog articles, you create links back to that pillar page that might be the page you make your actual sale on you incentivize them to actually give you a call or whatever action you want them to take.

00;21;22;15 – 00;21;44;09
Unknown
You make that kind of a cornerstone, so you want to make sure your top navigation is built in a way that it makes that page focus and tells Google. If you think of Google’s algorithm that it goes through and scans is all automated. And if you think of in a way where you’re like, okay, it is a five year old with ADHD and what can you do to structure your site to make sure this page is this important To me?

00;21;44;09 – 00;22;04;24
Unknown
This page is second important level of importance third, fourth and fifth. And really just make sure it is crystal clear if Google finds your site, there’s no way it can confuse you. If you’re selling stereos for Bluetooth headsets like it’s just one of those things, make sure it’s crystal clear. That’s kind of the interlinking. So the content is going to make sure that you link correctly with the correct in the link.

00;22;04;24 – 00;22;23;13
Unknown
So that’s one thing that’s also important is understanding what keywords you’re going for. And then as you create blog content or whatnot, that as you link back, you’re using a number of different phrases, a few key phrase as you’re linking back and say this page, this important to me for these keywords. The navigation says it, the content says it, and your own internal linking says it.

00;22;23;13 – 00;22;40;16
Unknown
And then the external part of it is there’s kind of two pieces here to be aware of. There is a backlink and there is a referring domain. So a backlink is essentially the same thing. A link from an external website pointing to your website and get I can link anywhere on your Web site. And then there’s a referring domain.

00;22;40;16 – 00;23;06;11
Unknown
And the referring domain is a website pointing to your website so we can get specific to a page or another website linking to your website. And there’s actual Web site. The easiest way to explain it is if Facebook had a blog post about your website and it had ten paragraphs and it had eight a link in every single paragraph linked to your website, you know, you would have one referring domain and you would have ten backlinks, if that makes sense.

00;23;06;11 – 00;23;32;23
Unknown
So a lot of people will say, Well, I’ve got hundreds or even thousands of backlinks, but they don’t have very many referring domains. And the referring domains that are linked in to them are not considered a very trustworthy. They, the backlinks themselves are really going to do very much. It used to be. And the reason for why it’s not as important anymore is the hackers spammers, we’re going to call them really is that a lot of Google’s ranking algorithm was based on the number of referrals, not referring domains, but of backlink.

00;23;32;23 – 00;23;48;28
Unknown
And so what they would do is they would go to a website that had maybe a thousand pages of content and they would say, Hey, add this link to every single page on your website. And overnight they would have a thousand backlinks and they would have one referring domain and so was a very easy way to get ten websites like that.

00;23;48;28 – 00;24;05;12
Unknown
All of a sudden, within a week you’ve got 10,000 backlinks and you’re killing it. You’re at the top of the rankings. Everything in your website might actually kind of suck. And so Google’s way of combating that was saying, you know what, referring domains more difficult to get than just a backlink, especially if it’s going to be a credible referring domain.

00;24;05;12 – 00;24;23;18
Unknown
And so they’re their focus is more on building the trust factor. The quality assurance that your website is legitimate is kind of a bulk from other websites. So the more websites you have pointing to your website, the you are legitimate, you’re good, you’re trust, flattery goes up and that’s why we get into domain authority rankings and those kinds of things.

00;24;23;18 – 00;24;46;21
Unknown
Your websites brand new. You probably have a trust factor of zero as opposed to a good referring domain might be addressed. Factor out 40 or 50. Know all the softwares out there. They have their own ranking and how that they gauge a website, whether it’s trustworthy or not, it’s usually a scale of 0 to 100. Trustworthy is usually somewhere in the 40 to 60 range is a good place to be, and then higher you get you’re considered more of an authority.

00;24;46;21 – 00;25;06;05
Unknown
Also, thanks for taking that hike down into the weeds with us, Glenn Beck. Out of the weeds. David, go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. So as we prep for this interview, I was probably the most excited for this question. So to set it up, typically Mike and any of our listeners, they will pick a product and then they’ll build a marketing plan around that product.

00;25;06;10 – 00;25;34;16
Unknown
One unique perspective that you have is you get to work with a lot of different brands and see a lot of different types of products and if we were to reverse engineer that, if you were to come up with a rock solid marketing and then build a product around, are there any characteristics that stand out to you that maybe price point that may be the type of product, you know, might be sized, but generally, what types of products tend to lend themselves to being easier to market?

00;25;34;18 – 00;25;51;12
Unknown
There’s a fantastic question. So let me see if I can answer that one more succinctly. I’m not going to say it depends, but it does have a huge impact in what channel you want to have the biggest impact. So the reason I say that is SEO and Google ads, two very strong channels. SEO is going to be your highest earner.

00;25;51;12 – 00;26;05;16
Unknown
Why? If it’s a new product and no one knows anything about it, you’re going to have the best content in the world and you could be ranking number one. But no one’s searching for us, so you’re not going to generate any sales whatsoever. If you’re going to focus on Tick Tock Facebook, where it’s more of an interruptive media.

00;26;05;17 – 00;26;22;18
Unknown
So they’re doing something else you can get in front of them and say, Hey, check out how cool our product is. All of a sudden, if it’s a new product, you have to build the awareness stabby blocks. You start to seek it out and potentially make your sales the way in which you wanted to approach that is can have a huge impact on the kind of marketing plan you wanted to have.

00;26;22;19 – 00;26;42;09
Unknown
People say, Well, at least the branding or whatnot, branding will definitely be part of it, but just an awareness that you actually exist. And the biggest mistake people make is, Hey, I’ve got this amazing product. They do a Facebook campaign because they understand, okay, people don’t know I’m here. I’m going to get their attention and they approach it from the standpoint of, Hey, buy this is 50% off.

00;26;42;09 – 00;26;56;23
Unknown
And no one’s ever heard of it. They essentially respond, What is this? Why am I being spammed with this garbage? And then they block your ad. So you have to understand that even with Facebook on a campaign like that, if you want to do that, you have to be able to explain, Hey, this super cool feature, do you have this problem?

00;26;56;23 – 00;27;14;16
Unknown
Speak to their pain point and have a flow they call a funnel. So Facebook funnel blaming the problem. They might have your solution and then kind of get them familiar with you, your brand, and then look for the sale after they’re aware you’re there and that you could actually solve a problem for them. Now that that makes it that makes a lot of sense in this.

00;27;14;16 – 00;27;31;07
Unknown
This is something that comes up with a lot of newer entrepreneurs where they’ll have a new idea for a new type of product that there’s not necessarily a keyword attached to this. I made that mistake. I put a CPA study guide on a mug. Turns out no one searches for that ever. I’ve got 200 of those in my basement.

00;27;31;07 – 00;27;50;18
Unknown
When somebody’s thinking of a product, you know, if they have two avenues to go down, I am going to make an improvement on an existing type of product that people know in search for where I’m going to invent a new space or a new product doesn’t necessarily have new keywords to describe it. And you give advice to that entrepreneur that’s in those crossroads.

00;27;50;18 – 00;28;08;25
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. And part of that’s just going to be understanding the obstacles in order to accomplish each one of those. I just really, just knowing what you’re up against and being prepared for that. So if you’ve got a brand new product, awesome. The potential for the upside is huge. It’s way bigger than just maybe repurposing your product, but understanding you’ve got to make them aware of it.

00;28;08;25 – 00;28;25;10
Unknown
You’ve got to have multiple channels working. You’re going to take longer to be able to start making your initial sales because of something brand new. Once it takes off, you could be off to the races and then you’ve got the actual a repurpose this product, that one as far as making a successful, is probably going to take a lot less effort than something brand new.

00;28;25;10 – 00;28;44;24
Unknown
But again, a part of it depends on what it is and who you’re marketing it to. A simple one. I’m sure you guys have seen it. You’re not that exciting, not that big a deal. Dr. Squatch. Essentially kind of repurposed deodorant, made it their own. But is nothing new about urine all of a sudden? You know, it went from two or 3 million in sales with a good marketing campaign.

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00;28;44;24 – 00;29;06;15
Unknown
Got some traction, and now they’re doing three or 400 million right now. So just absolute skyrocketed. So understanding I guess, what it is you’re trying to accomplish and then really also being aware of what your constraints are as far as your marketing campaign and how much money you can put into it. So if I wanted something that really I needed to bring awareness to, I feel like one of the best combinations would be an awareness campaign.

00;29;06;15 – 00;29;31;11
Unknown
Facebook and Tik-tok get those running, have your website built and have a good SEO campaign to start with your branded terms. Understanding how the channels work together is going to be critical. And this is where people make the biggest mistake is they’ll be running a Facebook campaign and they’ll be tracking a lot tracking, but understanding all the complexities of the tracking can definitely shoot yourself in the foot they’re tracking and they’re saying, well, all of my sales are coming from SEO.

00;29;31;12 – 00;29;56;03
Unknown
I must be killing with SEO. So I’m going to shut off my Facebook campaign because I’m pumping money into it and I’m not get any sales. If you go a little bit deeper into your tracking, you’ll find that the actual sales were being generated by your Facebook campaign. Facebook has a much lower trust factor than Google does. And so a lot of people will look at that, especially with a new product, a brand they haven’t heard before, like, is this guy legit or is this something out of China that some spammers hit me with?

00;29;56;04 – 00;30;13;14
Unknown
They will then Google your name, go through Google. If you’re ranked organically for your brand name, like, okay, they’re legit. They go to your website and then they buy it from your website. Assuming the price is the same, all of a sudden your organic is killing it. And the truth is your Facebook was the one actually driving the traffic to your organic to make the sale.

00;30;13;15 – 00;30;34;26
Unknown
That is really when you said that I had an moment of how to look at those two traffic sources. I really like that. Yeah, for sure. So that that’s a really interesting point. Well, you know, you have omnichannel an omnichannel company and you’re selling on multiple channels and then you’re tracking or you’re doing some kind of a higher level tracking on to see where your sales are coming in from.

00;30;34;26 – 00;31;01;03
Unknown
And now that you know, Amazon is more of a search, a product search, you know, marketplace, Google, same thing. And so they might check two or three things and try to trust you, then go to your site and buy it. But but they got they got in from a TikTok ad or, you know, or whatever. And so that’s an interesting and also you’ve got the I call it the billionaire battle, where you have the Zuckerbergs and all these guys blocking each other from looking through and tracking the, you know, all that stuff.

00;31;01;03 – 00;31;18;29
Unknown
There was a big Facebook debacle last year where they stopped tracking and all that. And so, yeah, it’s interesting to like not make too many rash decisions on, I’m getting all my stuff from Google, so I’ll shut off the Facebook or TikTok and well, then if you, you know, at least, you know, then you could also say, well, I just lost 20% of traffic.

00;31;18;29 – 00;31;39;12
Unknown
Well, guess what? Turn that back on. It comes back. And now, you know, 20% is coming from there. And so just kind of want to reiterate that. My next question is it’s kind of relates to it’s Google ads. So we’ll talk about that for it’s been around for for a very long time. And so specific question is for like e-commerce sellers, say, where we’re selling products that are in that 999, we’ll just want to say deodorant.

00;31;39;12 – 00;31;57;23
Unknown
You brought it up earlier and so do you already. So you got a product four that’s, you know, $10 for deodorant or 1499 and you want to market that on Google. So say a small business has that they don’t have. They don’t have much SEO. They know that they don’t have a big branding name. They want to go on Google ads and they want to, you know, drive traffic to their website for a 1419 product.

00;31;57;24 – 00;32;30;08
Unknown
Now the click, you know, say their margins are, you know, 30%, 40%. Maybe the keyword clicks are you know, they’re battling with, you know, the big players in that. And the keyword clicks are $3 or $4 or something to get that click over. Have you see like clients, like can you be successful like that? And what can you do to if you do have that 999 product, the 1499 product, what can you do that to be successful and run Google ads like upsells, email marketing, What is in the kind of can you describe a little bit of how to be successful with a product that’s nine nine, nine or 1499?

00;32;30;08 – 00;32;49;25
Unknown
Or is it just not a good idea to run Google ads? Great question. So starting and it really depends on the competition. And the reason I say that is because Google has is auction based. And so the more competitors you have, the more expensive the clicks are. That’s kind of an immediate impact. So understanding what your average cost per click is going to be, they’re really a starting point.

00;32;49;25 – 00;33;11;23
Unknown
Bayer Fox I really saw a lot of agencies out there and what their business practice was, and I did not want to follow suit. Bayer Fox As a we start with a consultative approach. There’s a lot of services we could offer, but if we don’t think we can make it successful, we won’t take the business and so on the bare bottom DragonCon website, we actually have three calculators on there to help you know your numbers, whether it be SEO will be pay pay per click.

00;33;11;24 – 00;33;31;08
Unknown
We can go on there and actually see, okay, this is my cost per click, this is my conversion rate. And then also understand the other numbers. Those are the initial kind of costs are going to incur borders, your average order value, you know, do they you know, might be selling something for 1499, but do you sell three of them and all of a sudden it’s much more profitable at three than it was for one?

00;33;31;08 – 00;33;48;22
Unknown
Do you have some upsells you can do to increase that average or a value? You have something maybe a 1499, you can hook them, but then you’ve got a much better offer down the road that you can get them to upsell. And then how many times do they buy from you all of a sudden if they, you know, they buy five or six times and they’re buying three or four products at a time.

00;33;48;22 – 00;34;09;22
Unknown
All of the sudden Google Ads is very much a profitable marketing channel you can go after. But the biggest thing I feel like beer gets in the way and a lot of the fear can be controlled by understanding your numbers and just making sure that they’re crystal clear and does not be complicated. Just understanding as long as you’re tracking you have any kind of track record, you can look at that and say, Yes, this is the cost per click.

00;34;09;22 – 00;34;31;18
Unknown
I’m expecting to get the conversion rate. Is this our sales numbers of this everybody uses and the customer lifetime value? Is this so really understanding, I say five or six metrics around what you’re trying to accomplish with that product can answer that question. And so that’s one thing we actually walked in through. Any client we take on, we actually walk them through that calculator to show them that this is what we are working with, this is what we think we can make happen.

00;34;31;18 – 00;34;50;15
Unknown
This is what your competitors are doing. This is what you can expect to get. Do you need to have a three times r a Y to cover your cost? You have a ten times. Where are you at in your needs to make it success and just understanding what that number is, that’s kind of like a reality checker before you dip your toe in, you know, before you jump in, let’s dip your toe in and see where you’re you’re sitting.

00;34;50;15 – 00;35;08;22
Unknown
So I like that. One other question that we have that I have is for a particular product. Ken and I are a big fan of the 8020 rule. In fact, our company sold 8020 capital. How many keywords drive 80% of traffic for a particular product? If someone said, I want to focus on my most important keywords, generally, how many keywords is that?

00;35;08;22 – 00;35;28;01
Unknown
Is it five, ten, you know, hundred great questions. So I would say depending on what you want from the traffic, if you’re looking for traffic or you’re looking for revenue from the traffic is going to be the day differentiator. So a short phrase oftentimes will generate the most traffic and the least amount of sales. Simple example is one of our clients.

00;35;28;01 – 00;35;53;24
Unknown
They were focusing on transporting vehicles and they focused on carbon of traffic and looking at it that the short keyword, you know, ship, car, carvana, carvana, shipping, anything like that provided the most amount of actual traffic to their website and they saw the numbers come in their phone. Okay, this is awesome. When you go in and make sure you have the tracking correctly, you can actually see that all this traffic makes up 60% of our total traffic and it makes up point one.

00;35;53;24 – 00;36;15;24
Unknown
5% of our sales are actual conversions. Not even kidding. And then when it looked at the other pages that were converting, the traffic was longer, didn’t make up as so the keywords were longer. The traffic didn’t make up nearly as much. Their top, I think 50 pages made up. I think 18% of our total traffic and it made up 40% of their conversions off of 18% of traffic.

00;36;15;24 – 00;36;33;22
Unknown
And so really understanding your traffic or your revenue, what is that end goal? And then work backwards from there to understand what keywords are looking for to generate the actual revenue. Or maybe you just want eyeballs and be competitive. Well, that’s where I would start, is really understanding what you want from the traffic you want to get if you are revenue.

00;36;33;22 – 00;36;49;29
Unknown
And I’m thinking of this through the lens of Google AdWords. If someone wanted to dip their toe in the water and say, I’m going to focus on these ten long tail keywords or these 100 long tail keywords, or what would this the scope of that be? And I know it depends on the product, but is there a general rule you could.

00;36;49;29 – 00;37;15;25
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I would say this you’re going to be probably 20% of those keywords are really going to be the ones driving your sales and understanding what those are and make sure you’ve got the tracking in place. But I would say definitely a minority are going to be the ones that are going to convert. And there’s one thing to be aware of is understanding that it’s going to take multiple touches to get the conversion and so the short term keywords are so short term, the short linked keywords are going to be important to also have some ranking for that.

00;37;15;25 – 00;37;34;08
Unknown
But people get frustrated, right? Well, clicked on my ad, they went to my website, Where am I conversions? Statistically speaking, you should expect 6 to 8 touches off of every visitor before they actually convert. I want to expand on that one before we before we get into the fire. So that’s a really good point there that you make.

00;37;34;09 – 00;37;59;07
Unknown
I’ve heard that so many times. You know, I’ve heard seven touch points is like this is what you what you can expect before conversion. And so, you know, it’s the know like and trust. What is your I guess let’s say you bring a new client in-house and do all the research on board on and then as it starts you know so they have a you know, hey, my budget is X amount of dollars and the first month that comes in and they’re there roses, you know, way lower than what they wanted.

00;37;59;07 – 00;38;24;03
Unknown
You know, it’s like, well, you know, we have to kind of build this machine and get it moving. And so especially if you’re selling a higher ticket item, right, that they they have to know they can trust you before they convert. And so what is your, I guess, advice to people that are just starting and like pay per click or, you know, when they’re when they have a smaller budget and it’s not converting, you know, it’s not like you hit the road, you know, day one and you exchange a dollar for three.

00;38;24;04 – 00;38;46;18
Unknown
It just there’s like a gradual, you know, grind what your what your advice or what would you like to share on that. Excellent question. It’s difficult because if you’re doing it yourself, you’re not a marketing expert and so you’re kind of blind guessing a little bit. You might have some experience in it. If you have someone, maybe a team member or someone you could pay a certain fee to that knew what they were doing and had a lot of confidence.

00;38;46;18 – 00;39;12;28
Unknown
Like know is the ramp up period. We’re doing this, this and this and they’ve seen it before. They’ve done it before for you or for someone else. They know exactly what they’re getting into and they can kind of guide you like, yeah, this was expected. I’m expecting it to start ramping up at this point, at this point. And if you don’t have that kind of experience in running something like that, the truth matter is you might be cutting off too soon or at the runs you might let it run way too long and you’re just throwing good money after bad money because you legitimately don’t know.

00;39;12;28 – 00;39;27;28
Unknown
So if you wanted to take it over, you could I would say it’d be a really smart investment to pay someone to set it up correctly, get it going, and then you could in-house it or something like that. But to just start yourself with no real experience, you’re kind of playing with fire whether you made the right call or not.

00;39;27;28 – 00;39;46;15
Unknown
Last question before we get into the fire round, can you tell us a little bit more about Fairfax marketing and what that clients were? Yeah, so we do a lot of work with I wouldn’t say blue collar industry, but a lot of roofing companies, fencing companies. We do work with some of the larger companies that work with consumer packaged good companies.

00;39;46;15 – 00;40;05;22
Unknown
So it kind of depends as far as what their goals are. We don’t do a lot of we’ve done some have some great success with software companies, SAS companies as well I’d say, probably probably 60% of our business is more of the blue collar. So construction companies, those kinds of things. And then we got the other 40% are SAS companies.

00;40;05;25 – 00;40;24;04
Unknown
We work with a great relationship at NATO out in California helped. We were with them for like four years, help them grow that construction company for accessory dwelling, accessory dwelling units, backyard. But yeah, that’s really primarily we work with Sobero and every guest we get on the show, we run them through the ringer. It’s called the Fire Out.

00;40;24;04 – 00;40;43;07
Unknown
It’s a it’s a four rapid fire questions. They’re very easy. Are you ready? Ready. What is your favorite book? Ten X is easier than two X by Ben Benjamin Harty. What are your hobbies? I would say exercising, weight, lifting and reading. One is one thing that you do not miss about working for the man punching a clock. I agree.

00;40;43;10 – 00;41;04;16
Unknown
All right, last one. What do you think sets apart successful entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail or never get started? I would say endurance. One of my favorite quotes from Ernest Shackleton, the explorer on the South Pole, he is Darman motto was By endurance, we conquer. I love that quote. That’s awesome. Absolutely. Bear, I want to thank you for being a guest on the podcast.

00;41;04;16 – 00;41;21;20
Unknown
People are interested in working with Bear Fox marketing. What would be the best way? Just go to the bear, Mark CNN.com. We’ve got some forms on there you can submit and we will reach out to you again. We always do the consultative approach, so no worries about any slick salesmen and talking to you just want to see if we can legitimately help you and points in the right direction.

00;41;21;23 – 00;41;28;13
Unknown
Awesome. Very nice. And we’ll post links to all that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time today and we’re looking forward to staying in touch. Awesome. Sounds good.

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