Joel Bower on Getting Intentional with Your Time

Episode 58

Today, we have an awesome guest to talk about his entrepreneurial journey and share the tips that helped him along the way. Joel Bower is the co-founder and owner of Owning the Edge, a high-end consulting and intimate mastermind business, helping established entrepreneurs and executives get personalized advice and training they need to replace cookie-cutter solutions that simply don’t work for growing businesses.

Listen to Joel and learn the tricks to get intentional with your entrepreneurial career

[00:01 – 05:59] Opening Segment

  • Let’s get to know Joel Bower 
  • His motivations for pursuing an entrepreneurial career 

[06:00 – 17:41] Solopreneurs Are Not Alone 

  • Joel recalls how he discovered his passion
    • Helping people get “unstuck”
  • He talks about one of the toughest challenges for entrepreneurs
    • How to deal with it? 
  • He gives interesting insights about the “guilt” in gifts 

[17:42 – 29:40] Protect Your Beliefs 

  • Joel walks us through the last goal he set
    • How did he reward himself? 
  • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
    • Promo code: FTM400
  • Are you a new entrepreneur? 
    • Here are Joel’s tips for you 
  • The role of family and friends in your career
    • Joel explains 

[29:41 – 40:43] Just Do Something and Be Consistent 

  • Joel shares the beauty of Mastermind and how it works 
  • Join us in this exciting game!
  • Let’s commence the Fire Round! 
    • His favorite book
    • His hobbies
    • The qualities that set successful people apart from everyone else 

[40:44 – 42:05] Closing Segment 

  • Connect with Joel! Links below 
  • Final words

Tweetable Quotes:

“Entrepreneurs have a tendency of getting so fixated on their dream, getting so caught up in the opportunity, the fear of missing out… that burnout is a constant thing.” – Joel Bower

“When you’re starting a business, you need endless information. You need everything.” – Joel Bower

Resources Mentioned:

You can find out more about Joel on his website and on InstagramFacebook, and Youtube.





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Joel 0:00
as entrepreneurs have a tendency of getting so fixated on their dream getting so caught up in the opportunity, the fear of missing out whatever it is that burnout is a constant thing, if you’re really growing and pushing that edge, burnout is something that is always kind of like, at the edge of your view. We provide value, we create things where nothing was we create jobs where there wasn’t one, we create opportunities that don’t exist, we add value to the world, we add so much, but still, it’s in the back of our mind. And I think it exists because everybody that doesn’t have that wants it at some degree. And it’s easier to say, No, I don’t have to work harder. That person is a greedy bastard. When you’re starting a business, you need endless information. You need everything you need, you don’t know nothing, you know, like, you got to figure out LinkedIn, you got to figure out so if you’re doing social, you got a parent podcast, you got to figure out sources you got to figure out Amazon you got whatever it is that you are doing, there’s like a million things you have to learn. So the name of the game is not focused. You know, it doesn’t feel like that at least because there’s all these have to come together to even begin to get anything moving.

Intro 1:02
Welcome, everyone, to the Firing The Man podcast, a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you were capable of more than join us, this show will help you build a business and grow your passive income streams in just a few short hours per day. And now your host serial entrepreneurs David Schomer and Ken Wilson.

David 1:27
Welcome everyone to the firing the man podcast on today’s episode, we are joined by Joel Bower, who is the co founder and owner of owning the edge. owning the edge is a high end consulting and intimate mastermind business, helping established entrepreneurs and executives get personalized advice and training. They need to replace cookie cutter solutions that simply don’t work for growing your business. Welcome to the show, Joel.

Joel 1:53
Thank you for having me, guys.

David 1:55
Absolutely. So first things first, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Joel 1:59
Yeah, so that is I always whenever I get this question, I was wondering where do I start because I could go all the way back. And I remember when I was a small toddler and my first memories, but for the entrepreneurial game, it’s actually been a pretty long journey for me, even in that I got introduced to the concept when I was like 12. My parents, my mom had remarried and my my stepdad now just my dad was big into self development and to Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar Denis waitley, he had cassette tapes. And I remember at age 12 being annoyed that we you know, went from a premium to car right, every car ride was music to every car ride was Tony Robbins. And at first I remember being agitated by that and going where’s the music, I want to sing along and it took about a year or so. And then I stopped saying anything because it started going in it started sinking in and started setting up kind of a different reality that I started from that point seeing that I could build whatever life I wanted. And without even realizing it kind of building the life that I wanted had to do with creating a business having control of my monetary future. And so I’ve been an entrepreneur like really in mindset from like that point. I just saw the world that way. And I didn’t really understand how weird I was until I started getting into high school and college where you actually talk about where you’re going what your dreams are. And I was like, everybody’s like, Oh, I’m gonna lock down this degree and maybe get my masters and then I’m gonna, you know, start I was like, Well, I’m in as soon as I get out of here, I’m gonna start my own business, I’m going to go into real estate, I’m gonna, you know, whatever it was, I just had to get started. And at times felt kind of lonely because it was like, it started making me doubt like what I was doing, because like, I didn’t hear any other references for it really, it was rare. And because of that kind of conflict, I learned to stop talking to certain people about it. But then when I found later, I found people that were in it with me, I was like, all in I was like, I want to help these people as much as I can, because they get me we’re all on the same path. And that journey has never stopped, you know. And so I am in high end consulting in this day, we have been partners in companies and e commerce in major like leadership podcasts all over the place. And I just love the cake helping an entrepreneur like figure out all the stuff like you know, from early Tony Robbins of self development and how to build your business and get a life they really want not just make money but get a life that they truly want. And that is the my obsession for me. It’s obsession for my family and every entrepreneur I come in their their family because they get something the rest of the world doesn’t.

David 4:25
Now Joel, I gotta ask and people that identify as an entrepreneur through and through. Typically they have a first venture in their childhood, you know, a lemonade stand mowing grass. You know, mine was sweet corn. What was your first entrepreneurial business?

Joel 4:42
So I was I think around 10 and my sisters started making these bracelets where they would wrap the strings and braid braid it and it was pretty quick that I said, oh, maybe we could sell these because they take a while to make and I tried making one myself, but I wanted to Don’t do that. But I started getting I asked them if they could make a bunch for me. And then I went door to door and actually offer to them to families, like for their kids. And I just remember because it was the funniest scene I have, I kind of setup it like, now looking back. It’s funny. It’s like a little sweatshop in the back of my parents house. And I’ve got both my sister’s like making bracelets. I’m like, Oh, we got more orders than just this demand of keep flowing through. But yeah, it was, it was very clear that I wanted to play a different game than most people.

Ken 5:30
So Joel, I had the privilege of being in a mastermind with you in 2019. I was in it, I was a member, and you’re chairing the mastermind. And as I was sitting there, and kind of just absorbing everything, you know, we were kind of going around the room and you’re in you’re kind of analyzing everybody’s problems, and then just kind of facilitating a way for them to get unstuck. And I thought that was I had never seen that before. And I thought that was amazing. So I guess what led you to helping other people get unstuck, like, like, to me that’s kind of like your superpower. You know, it’s like, so what, what, what point did you realize, oh, wow, like, this is what I like to do. And this is my passion.

Joel 6:12
But in that it’s kind of one of those things like a lot of the skills you have usually come up because of necessity. And I talked about that love I had for other entrepreneurs I wanted to do when I started realizing that people like me existed, I wanted to do everything to be valuable to them. And one of the things that I had is a lot of background and self development. I mean, basically, I had an education most people don’t have in a lifetime before the time I was 20. And so I started just provided like I didn’t maybe know business, and I was finding trying to find mentors there and trying to grow that, but I wanted to understand it, and I wanted them to stay in them. So what kept coming up is that, yeah, maybe I couldn’t help them understand the next level for their business yet. But I could help them understand how to get out of their own way how to feel better about what they were doing, how to enjoy the process. And so it’s bringing to bear everything I learned about really just like owning your life and not just having it you kind of kicked around and knocked around by other people’s beliefs or, you know, your ups and downs, everybody has them, you know, you can translate them to, you should stop doing that thing, because it’s gonna create a lot of pain or you can keep moving. And so by doing that, I was just always trying to enter into a relationship with someone and then try to understand their world. So I could see what I could give them what I could help them with what I could do to move them forward.

David 7:21
So Joel, as you’re establishing these relationships, I’m sure that you’ve seen some success stories. But in we’ve had a lot of success stories on the show. However, I am more interested in what are some like common pitfalls, or failures that you’re seeing in what can we do to avoid those

Joel 7:41
i is when I fall into all the time, and I’ll give it because I tackle it like crazy, because it’s so important is entrepreneurs have a tendency of getting so fixated on their dream getting so caught up in the opportunity, the fear of missing out whatever it is that burnout is a constant thing, if you’re really growing and pushing that edge. burnout is something that is always kind of like at the edge of your view. And it takes a lot of work and concentration to make sure that you are not leading towards that path. And some of the core things I see in that is if you don’t know where you’re really going, like vividly know where you’re going, then it’s hard to get it’s easy to go, Oh, well, maybe this will take me there, oh, maybe that will take me there. Or maybe that will take me there. When you get really vivid on what you’re looking for. So I we had a conversation with Ken was talking about taking a month off. And he’s like, well, maybe it’s a maybe that I want. And as I started like explaining it to him, it’s like if you know what you want momentarily, and you want a month off, you got to start solving that problem. That’s not that’s not a new thing. And so entrepreneurs, a lot of times will separate everything’s like, I just need to make a million million dollars, and then the overwhelm will go away. You know, I’ll just, if I get to this point, then my family will finally I’ll have time for them. And it never comes because we’re not getting crystal clear. What do we want our life to look like? What do we want our world to look like? And are we building that opportunities are not you know, are not limited? They are abundant, the right ones are limited. You have to look at them and be conscious of that, what am I looking for what I want. So if you do that overwhelm doesn’t seem to knock at you, because you’re actually motivated by what you’re doing. You’re seeing it become a reality that that creates a cycle where you get fed by what you’re doing. And so if you can get clear on that, I think that’s one of the most common things that I see people just burn out and give up kill, you know, something that’s important to them because they didn’t quite ask for what they wanted. And that confusion will create that burnout is one of the toughest things I see on entrepreneurs because there’s a certain point if you get so deep, it’s really hard to dig back out. They just, you know, it’s like hard to pull that emotional energy back out and feel good again. And so I just I would warn any entrepreneur if you’re starting to feel that there is something wrong and your system is not you didn’t hustle hard enough. There’s something going on you don’t like or something that you’re not clear on what you want. You’re maybe doing what everybody else wants you to do or what you think the industry says you have to do. And that’s just not this rare. True, there are so many ways to get to success.

David 10:04
I want to dive a little deeper on this, this topic of burnout. And I think it’s definitely relevant or more relevant to one entrepreneurs, and to people that are involved in e commerce. And, and the reason for that is if you have an eight to five job, right, you come in at eight, you leave at five, for an entrepreneur, it never seems to end. And I have not met very many entrepreneurs that, that get a solid eight hours of sleep every night, 365 days a year, there is something that plagues you, as an entrepreneur, you know, you get that idea at night, in the second thing, why I think this is relevant to e commerce is because we can do everything from our laptop. So say, it’s Sunday morning, you wake up, you have all the tools that you need to be productive for four or five hours. And all of a sudden, you’ve missed your Sunday, you know, a family day. And that’s different from somebody that’s a paints, houses, right, you got to get in the truck, you got to have a place to go, you have to have your paint. And it is so easy for us to slip into answering emails at 9pm. And at midnight, you’re like, Hey, we’re Where did the last three hours go? So what are some things that entrepreneurs can do, you know, on a daily basis, that will help with the the burnout?

Joel 11:22
Yeah, one of the first things, entrepreneurs need to learn that even when they’re solopreneurs, they’re not alone, they can’t be, I need to get to the higher heights like entrepreneurs aren’t like, I want to kind of get by and have a mom and pop shop. And hopefully I’ll make some money. They’re not just trying to cover the bills, they’re trying to build something, there’s something in them that like, I want something big, I want something amazing. And you just have to understand that’s not going to happen if you know, by yourself. And the reason I warn that is because the way we get to a decent level the beginnings of success is we do it all, we everything that comes up every problem is solved by us and then solved by our blood, sweat and tears and the actual performance of that whatever solution we came up with. And so it’s like, every time we go and we see these barricades to where we want to go, we just had a new job because we solve it and then Okay, well, now we got to do the work, entrepreneurs need to start thinking, even from the beginning, you have to start developing that team. And that doesn’t mean pay them. You know, sometimes it’s trades a service, sometimes, it’s just being aware that you need to get out of this position and build it in a way that someone can step into it. And I just like, that’s gonna be the first thing you cannot do at all You shouldn’t do at all. And in many ways, you’re in the damn way. You know, after again, some success, but we don’t want to give up the mantle either. Because it’s tough. You know, I don’t know, if you’ve ever watched somebody play a video game that you’re really good at. And they suck. And you’re just like, Oh my God, give me that controller. And entrepreneurs, man, we feel that at the highest level, because it’s not only a video game, it’s our baby, and you’re doing it wrong, and you’re gonna upset somebody or I can’t believe you would write that email. And, you know, and so we want to snag that back. And we don’t give anybody else even a chance to perform in our business or to learn to or to go back and forth with us. So we can learn what maybe they’ve got skills we don’t have, and there’s something better between us. You know, that isn’t just us by ourselves. But that ego piece that that I do it all, I’ve made it happen, I can make it happen faster, is one of the biggest hindrance from entrepreneurs actually growing their business to a way in a way that allows them to have a life too. And it’s tough. It’s a different job, I’ll tell you like, it’s like, okay, I did it myself. And I learned all these skills, and I’m good at them and practicing for years, and then suddenly got to manage someone, and immediately, you’re just not good at it. I’ve never seen entrepreneur come out like first day they hire someone, they were like a brilliant manager, unless they had some experience somewhere else. And so they have to get the skill of how do you get someone to understand your vision? How do you get them to share your vision and your care for what you’re building, it’s your business, you become a millionaire, they get a salary, or they get trades of service or, you know, maybe they get a very measly reward at the beginning because that’s all the money you have is that one out task, but you need to learn that skill, you need to learn that ability. That is the biggest way to stave off burnout is that you’re not alone. Don’t do it alone. Even early when you have to because of financial a time start thinking through it. Maybe you can bring a family member in maybe you have enough that like sharing the profits with somebody find some way to to work with people.

Ken 14:25
Nice. Now Joel, before we move on from burnout, I’d like to dig a little bit on that one. Cuz I think burnout is a really, really big topic for entrepreneurs. And the first two years of my journey was a grind in absolute grind. And then last year was the first year that I worked on goals and rewards Can you kind of explain that that that that feedback reward cycle and and how it plays into mindset?

Joel 14:50
Yeah, absolutely. So again, I mean, entrepreneurs are doing it all in our, you know, we’re trying to build this dream. And so generally what happens we start wanting to put everything back in You know, we make some money, it was like, Oh, good, then let’s get more inventory, okay, we have some money to pay for an ads Facebook ads guy, you know, we start, we start wanting to like to have the money go back to building the business and we take very, very little of it. And that can work for a while but at a certain point, there’s needs and wants you have there’s desires, like there’s this life that you you started this all four. And if you never get a taste, you know, if you never get the feel like man, I’m getting for moving forward. And that that can be little subtle things like, I don’t know, buying yourself, the smartphone you want, you know, all the way up to doing the vacation you want. But if you look at it, and you look at your rewards, or your goals for the year, and you have these big goals, and you want to make a lot of money, and you don’t have some way of like seeing, okay, when I get that, I actually get a reward back that says go Keep going, keep going, it’s good, we’re getting what we want. And there’s all kinds of reasons for that, I’ll talk a little bit about the stoppage. There’s a lot of guilt, you know, that around gifting yourself something, there’s so much guilt around money and the way people talk about entrepreneurs as like we, you know, obviously, we must be these greedy bastards that just want to like, you know, hoard all the money, we we sacrifice our family, we don’t care about anything. And it’s nothing can be like more untrue. And what I’ve seen in most entrepreneurs, we provide value, we create things where nothing was we create jobs where there wasn’t one, we create opportunities that don’t exist, we add value to the world, we add so much. But still, it’s in the back of our mind. And I think it exists because everybody that doesn’t have that wants it at some degree. And it’s easier to say, No, I don’t have to work harder. That person is a greedy bastard. You know, I don’t have to have more. And since it’s societal, we don’t get we don’t really think we don’t get a choice until we we look at it and say no, that’s not my thinking. It just goes in it just little subtle things. You see these movies? And it’s like, well, the lesson is this guy was working really, like really hard to create this thing. But look, he’s a monster, he avoided his family. And it’s like, there’s plenty of people that build business and don’t like, ignore their family. And other It happens all the time. You know, it’s actually more common than that image, but we see over and over and over again, and movie. So when it gets down to and you start making some of that money, and you’re like, ah, maybe I should upgrade my house. Or maybe I should get a nicer car. Or maybe I should just get a frickin toy or vacation or you know, something else. There’s like this. Oh, but what will other people think? What would they think about me, and I’m flaunting all this wealth. So it’s easier for us to stay pretend humble, and just shove it down. And but what’s the point? If you’re not getting the life that you declared that you wanted? Then what are you doing it all for?

David 17:42
Joel to pick up on this goal reward process? What was the last goal that you set? And how did you reward yourself?

Joel 17:50
Yeah, so I’ll actually tell you what I have for this year. So this year, it’s really important for us that we get what we’re calling a plus team. And what is coming about that is already insane. Like, I mean, the team is coming together in amazing ways I show up in meetings, and things I didn’t even know were happening are done, not just let’s talk about them and maybe task it out. They’re done. And I just this dream of having this team where they love what they do so much. They believe so much in the people that we serve and the mission that we’re on, that they are inspired by themselves, to move forward to grow, to learn to get better at their trade, so much so that I want to get better because I you know, I don’t want to get behind, you know, I don’t want to be I want to be inspiring them to and that that playoff is so important to me, because I think that’s where we get to next levels, I can’t be responsible for every decision, my business, I gotta go the next level. So for me, the reward is we’re actually looking at a Disney World trip depending on COVID and people’s enjoyment of wearing a mask at Disney World when we get to the certain size, and then we hit our you know, our financial metric as well like those things combined, we unlock a Disney World trip and we’ll actually go for 10 days and you know, be there as a team. I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know what the mix is exactly, because my family is gonna want some days by ourselves as well. But something like that, that really allows us to go and celebrate it to enjoy it to remind ourselves that there’s a life beyond the keyboard you know that there is there’s actually a world out there.

David 19:21
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Ken 20:15
So Joel, we’ll take a step back now. So a lot of some of the listeners to the show, or they might not have started a business yet, or they might be in month one or three, what what advice would you give to yourself? Let’s say you’re just starting a business. And in terms of mindset, like what you’re going to go through in the first six months, and what should you you know, what, what kind of tips and tricks should you tell yourself and or be prepared for, to to overcome any, you know, in the first six months or a year of an entrepreneurial journey,

Joel 20:46
the first thing is stop listening to people who haven’t accomplished what you’re looking for. You can you can you can hear them, you can respect their opinion, but it’s their opinion, if they have not done it, I always like to put it back to like something more obvious. If I am getting relationship advice from someone who’s gone through three divorces, I should probably stop, you know, I should probably go get it from anybody else almost other than the warnings of what to do do not do that things. And we both in our business, it’s all the time, it’s like our father in law can speak on it, or the weird uncle can speak on it. You know, our, our wife was not really committed to it, you know, she doesn’t really understand it. It’s different, but she should speak on, yes, you should get both in your life and where you guys are going. But she doesn’t know if it works or not. She doesn’t know what it takes. And if it you know, it was worse than it was a female entrepreneur, same thing her husband doesn’t really understand. And so I just be very careful with people that are coming in and giving you advice about what you should do, or if it’s going to work or cannot be successful. If they do not have that success, then they do not know. Because it’s not like if we look around, I mean, one thing if they said, Oh, no, that thing doesn’t work. And you look around and nobody’s ever made it happen. Yeah, that’s pretty stupid, you know, or genius, innovation. I have no idea. You know, it’s one of those things. But for most of us, it’s like, I want to start an e commerce. Oh, yeah, nobody’s making money in e commerce. Oh, wait, yeah, there’s plenty of people. I just talked to many of them. And so I just I think the first thing is kind of protect your beliefs about what’s possible by paying attention to who’s created it not to those who haven’t. And I mean, that’ll save you a lot of pain.

Ken 22:21
Yeah, yeah, I liked it a lot. It sets that saying is, if you want to get some more, find someone that’s been there and ask them how to do it. That’s the same, same thing. That’s awesome.

David 22:32
I also love that advice. You know, I heard this the other day, and I cannot place my finger on where it was, but somebody was talking about As humans, we are just seeking primates, right. from an evolutionary standpoint, we’re always seeking validation. And, man, I’m guilty of that. I care what my father in law thinks run right in those man, those little comments that you hold on to weeks after the fact. And that’s a great point, you know, hey, if you have not started a business, or are involved in e commerce, man, I’m really not interested in what you have to say about this topic.

Joel 23:09

David 23:10
Yeah. In so I, that’s a that is a good reminder. Because I think everybody as a validation seeking monkey, you know, that is built into you. And so that’s, that is good reminder, I really like that.

Joel 23:25
I’ll extend that because there’s actually one person that’s actually worse than anybody else. And that’s ourselves. We are frickin mean. And again, if we have not accomplished something we can look at the world and see has been accomplished numerous times before. We don’t we don’t have the right to speak on that as dogmatic. So we need to understand when we’re saying, oh, man, I screwed up. What if I never do? What if I wasted that money? You know, we have to go get and seek the opinions of people have made it happen, even from our stiffer Texas even from ourselves. And that’s why I think the other people hit so hard, is because we’re 10 times meaner to ourselves. Oh, I knew I was I was just kidding myself that I could make this happen. You know, that stuff I hear from entrepreneurs early on, before they’ve gotten that first hit of success is just it will actually well beyond that, too. But definitely in that area, you hear the most of it. And it’s just they’re really mean to themselves. So,

David 24:17
absolutely. You know, Joe, one thing I’ve made note of that you have talked about his family, and that really resonates with me, I have a son, that’s one year old. Ken is a family man himself, as we have organized this podcast Family First, if there’s ever anything that has to do with family that comes first this is secondary. And you know, I’m thinking back to about a year ago, I was in Las Vegas at cellar con this probably two years ago now. And somebody had a mug that said, I’m self employed. That means I get to pick which 80 hours per week I work. And, and you know, you see that often in the entrepreneurial world where people wear that as a badge of honor and an IM You know, family is my number one priority. And so I always like to ask other entrepreneurs, you know, what are you doing in your own life? That is a top priority? How are you balancing things? Yeah. So

Joel 25:12
I mean, I think I do things a little bit differently than most, I’m not always looking at as like a clean cut. And then here’s family time. And here’s work time, I want my family to share in my life all the way through, I want them to know my ups and downs, I want to know about my career, just like I want to support them in whatever they choose is their thing. And the way that’s worked out is my wife has a partner in our business, my daughter who just turned 18, is working with our social media team, my son who’s 14 is getting his chops cutting videos for us. He does 3d graphic artists artwork on his own. And so to me, it’s like, my family is in my life, I don’t care where it is, I want to share that with them. Now, they may not want to do that long term. And I’m totally aware, I’m constantly once lighting them up what’s exciting them, because I want to be part of the mission they want to have, you know, for for them as they grow. And you know, they kind of expand. And so a lot of times is I’m just I kind of, I guess I have to watch when I’m mixing too much, because I see my partners as family, you know, and we’re all in this together. And it’s been a really amazing thing. And so the first thing is share, I share everything I share the victories I share what I’m worried about, they’re not like, I’m not alone in the room, and they’re well, why is he so grumpy today? They know why, you know, they know exactly what happened. I’m like, I can’t believe this happened, you know that this thing up or whatever it is. But they also know where I’m going. They know what it means. And I remember one of my earliest conversations with my daughter. And I think this will actually bring out the advice that actually is a takeaway that most entrepreneurs can use, my daughter would come into the room, and she wanted to show me something, and she want to show me something like every three minutes, and I am having a horrible time I was about to lose this contract that was super important. It was like, at that time, like half our revenue, it was a big contract for where we were and she keeps popping in I’m trying to answer the phone I’m trying. And I just find that you have to you have to go I you know, I’m gonna try like in the middle of the thing is ringing. And I could see her heartbreak and minded to like, take a second there. And my heart broke because I was like I didn’t, that’s not what I want. And I like I’m sitting here and the person starts talking because the phone came through. And I’m just, I can’t say anything. And I just kind of get up and the person is still talking to me. And I just slowly I kind of closed the door and I just take a second and the person still don’t know. And so I finally regained myself and had that conversation or had that phone call. And I went and found my daughter immediately. And I said hey, I got to explain something because i think i think you think I do this in conflict with you or against you or like that I don’t want to spend time or see what you I want to see it more than anything in the world. But when I’m there, I want to see it. I don’t want to be halfway in. So here’s what I’m doing. What I do in my work is I want to build a future for you. I want to build a future for all of us where a lot of the opportunities I didn’t get growing up or the life that I could live, I didn’t get and I’m going to make sure that’s never the issue for us. But what I’m going to do is I’ll let you know, I’ll put something on the door when I’m in that’s work time. But as soon as that comes down, I’m coming to you. And everything changed, she would leave, she would leave little sticky notes on the door, like that sneak off, so she wouldn’t bother me. And ever since then it’s just been I share with we have a new logo design or a new brand or a new client that I’m excited about, I brag about some exciting people, I get to talk to you on a regular basis. And she’s just part of it now. And so I think communicate what it really means. They don’t understand just because you have all these rules inside your head, like I’m the provider, and I got to make this happen for my family. And each one of these deals matters. And they don’t know that, you know, that was your life. They haven’t been aware during that time. That was all the stuff you learned. And so if you can take a second figure out what why are you doing it? How is it connected to them? How can they be part of it and tell them and sometimes it’s a selfish thing sometimes like I just need this because I feel like I’m a badass when I do it. Like that’s just that’s an ego thing and you’re gonna get those two when you have kids you know you’re gonna have moments for you. And that’s totally cool and so but communication really getting them to understand not just saying at them but really like getting that back and forth getting them to repeat it and that’s your that’s your your significant other that’s your friends that’s like whoever is part of your ongoing support you know your life as if you will just really give them the respect of telling you what it means to you really and what it what how it does connect if it does, so that so nice. Yeah,

Ken 29:41
that that’s a really that was really powerful. And yeah, like like it kind of you know, family is like the structure and the power behind that and kind of looping that into what you’re doing every day is is powerful. So Joel that kind of brings me into the the next thing here. I want to cover is another thing that’s powerful are masterminds. And so I, there’s some people that might not know what a mastermind is I’ve got friends that I say like, Hey, I, you know, I went to this mastermind they’re like, What the hell’s that? So let’s let’s dial it back a little bit. Can you explain what a mastermind is? And then can you kind of explain our like, talk about owning the edge and your project?

Joel 30:22
Yeah, absolutely. So masterminds are when a group of people focused on a single topic, or single idea at one time come together. So you’ll see it a lot like the original beliefs, I think the ideas around it came from thinking Grow Rich, the Napoleon Hill book, where he would actually build imaginary masterminds and imagine people key people that he values that he respected. And he would pose his problem to this imaginary room, like Abraham Lincoln and Dale Carnegie, or, you know, was the other guy, Andrew Carnegie. And he would just imagine these people, and he would pose the question, and then from what he thought they would do, he would get different answers than himself, you know, and so but that bridge kept going until getting the people that you know, the people that are good at what that is all around you all solving the same problem or solving a similar type. So if I was doing a lot of math, as you see now around business, a lot of times, and or a type of business, like e commerce or something like that for funnel building, or whatever it is. And so what happens is everybody comes in, and each person kind of shares their, what they’re going through their problem, their concern, and the other people basically bring in their knowledge, their experience that’s vast combined. To solve that problem, to get to a solution to move it forward. I think it is one of the most powerful ways that successful businesses grow faster, is because when you’re starting a business, you need endless information, you need everything you need, you don’t know nothing, you know, like, you got to figure out LinkedIn, you got to figure out so if you’re doing social, you got a parent podcast, you got to figure out sources, you got to figure out Amazon you got whatever it is that you are doing, there’s like a million things you have to learn. So the name of the game is not focused, you know, it doesn’t feel like that at least because there’s all these have to come together to even begin to get anything moving. Well, at a certain point, the business keeps growing. And we still try to collect information like that. We still try to collect everything. But the truth is, there’s usually one thing maybe two things, Max, that if you do those, if you understand the nature of that project, your business will change, and your focus completely on that we’ll make it happen sooner, you know, and many times just the focus is the difference between actually succeeding in that or not, you know, if you’re kind of half paying attention and sort of getting it moving along, that project usually will stretch for months, until you’re like so not lit up anymore. Whatever motivated you originally is no longer active, and you’re like, oh, now I’m just now just doing all this work that I hate. And but when you focus on something, and you have all these, especially expert opinions and other experience going, Hey, I was in the same problem, this is what I did, and go, Wow, I’ll just do that exact same thing. You get focus to move your business to the next level. And so when you’ve grown your business, and I think it’s valuable at any level, because there’s a shared experience element, find people like maybe you’re in the startup phase, but in finding other people are doing that starting thing because we all get each other. And maybe this person is learning how to set up funnels, that one’s learning Facebook ads, and you can bring all that together. I think it’s really cool. But the most powerful ones I’ve seen are that higher end businesses, businesses are starting to take off and they need that focus. And they need that like that support and understanding that other people are testing things that they you know, with their own blood, sweat and tears that they can bring to you. And so absolutely powerful thing. We are running a brand owning the edge and right before COVID it was a brand around a live, it was experiential retreat, style masterminds. And so it would be like tropical locations and stuff and really high end entrepreneurs all come together, part enjoy the hell out of where we are and get serious about our business. And a week later, the lockdowns all started happening. So right now oni edge is going had kind of rebranded actually not right now this whole year, last year, we rebranded and we are now we are going to have I am masterminds, but not yet. Right now, we are going after really helping entrepreneurs scale their successful businesses without sacrificing their family and the life that they truly want. There’s so much pain there, we’re ready to go after it. And I think it’s a wake up right now. Because people got forced home. You know, people that used to go to the office every day and like they didn’t really have to deal with that struggle

of like their family pressure on them. Now there’s like pings all day, the same experience I had with my daughter kept coming in it. Yeah, it was it was tough. You know, and now I don’t know how many people are in that situation. They’re still trying to grow their business, they’re still trying to be at the next level. But now they’re just sitting there behind one door with a zoom call on you know, like, and that’s so unusual to them. So their wife is paying them their husband, their family, you know there when you don’t go to an office or you don’t go somewhere you know, your relatives already believed that you don’t work. You know, you can do whatever you want. So you got stopped work, you know, like Not enough freedom was getting doesn’t mean freedom from work. It’s completely different. So yeah, that’s that’s what we’re doing now. And we’re moving forward in that project a really heavy, we’re building technologies and tools in the background that get people through those, and still scale their business. I don’t want you to give up on your baby. That’s insane. Like, how many times like we believe it’s like, oh, well, if you really cared about your family, you wouldn’t work at all, yeah, then pay the bills. Go ahead. Enjoy, you know, good luck. But we can build businesses that open up more time with our family and are set up in a way where they don’t they can grow without us. And that’s why I was you know, that eight team I was talking about, I’m so excited about that. Because there will be a point where more and more people come into our organization, and this is their place to grow. And as they do, they expand and provide more to the people we serve. And you know, it’s a very exciting time because it changes my role. I used to think of myself as kind of the the crusading Knights I fought every challenge, I got my sword out, I was on the frontlines, whatever it was, I was. And now I’m kind of seeing myself as a sovereign King, like the the person that’s really looking at and I want the kingdom to succeed, I want it to be better than it was. And that’s my role. That’s the value I add through my company and through the people we serve.

David 36:11
Excellent, very nice. I am looking forward to, at one point, being a guest at one of these high end masterminds, if I even meet the criteria.

Joel 36:22
So yeah, agility, test a lot to go through. But once you break through those, it’s usually clear sailing. So that’s

David 36:29
right. So we are going to a new section of our show called the pro tip off. And I’d like to pivot a little bit here, you have mentioned self improvement. And I will tell you, I am a self improvement book junkie. I always if you look through my audible playlist, that’s all there is. And so I’d like to play a little game called popcorn, where I’m going to tell you a self improvement book and just a quick elevator pitch for why I like it. And I’d like to bounce back and forth a little bit and hear what what books have been very monumental in your development. So to kick things off four hour workweek by Tim Ferriss that got me comfortable with outsourcing. Alright, let’s hop on over to you Joe.

Joel 37:13
Road Less stupid, it told me how to actually be aware of my financials, to get to the next level to make decisions with them not just be overwhelmed by the numbers.

David 37:22
I like it. And I’m going to add that one to my list. My next one is the Lean Startup by Eric Reese. This, to me introduced the concept of a minimum viable product and made me realize as an entrepreneur, it doesn’t have to be perfect on launch day because you don’t even know if someone’s gonna buy it. And that has been you know, that simple lesson out of that book is carried with me. Awesome. Yeah, what about what about you popcorn bag? can jump in here anytime you go can

Joel 37:54
actually, I’m gonna go look at my books cuz

Ken 37:56
Yeah, I spin around here, you put me on the spot. Buy then build that one there, buy them build kind of was eye opening to me in terms of online business acquisitions and the $2 trillion tsunami of the next decade. That was eye opening.

Joel 38:15
Awesome on on the entire Russell Brunson. secrets all the way through absolutely incredible. The man is a master and a studied the geniuses of our time in marketing, like seriously looked at what they did, people like Dan Kennedy, and even farther back. But you know, Dan Kennedy was already a student of everybody. And then Bronson became the number one student of Dan Kennedy. And then added all of his own understanding of the modern world. And it just powerful if you really want understand how money’s made online, guys how you do it.

David 38:45
All right, I, again, adding those to my list. And I’ll do one more, I’ll kick it over to you, Ken. And then we’ll go into the fire round. My last one is master the giant within by Tony Robbins. And I’ll tell you what, the guy is the goat in terms of self improvement, there is a reason he has been around for 25 years. You know, people call him a guru. He’s an easy guy to pick on. But I’ll tell you what, the guy’s got it dialed in. I mean, he just you follow the principles and practices out of that book. And you’re a better person. And you know, he’s another family man, Joel. And Ken, you know, he that is a high priority for him. And so I’m a big Tony fan. I would love to go into his live shows. And so I’m gonna finish this game of popcorn with with master the giant within. Nice.

Ken 39:33
Alright, so we’re coming up on time, Joel. We finish all the shows off. We used to call it a lightning round. But we made an executive decision to start calling it the fire round now because it’s firing the man podcast. So we have the fire round. And the first one. Well, first off, are you ready?

Joel 39:50
I’m ready.

Ken 39:51
Okay, what’s your favorite book?

Joel 39:53
Favorite book? I mean, I read so much it that’s a hard call. My favorite recent book is His man. Yeah, I read so many books. It’s insane. I’m really enjoying red ocean or blue red ocean blue ocean. That book is insane. I don’t know. That’s a real title of it, but oh yeah, it’s fire around. So sorry. Yes. All right. What are your hobbies? My hobbies? I build businesses and I love the hell out of it. Nice. Okay, so

Ken 40:22
last one. What do you think sets apart successful e commerce entrepreneurs from those who give up fail or never get started

Joel 40:29
doing something, anything and keep doing it. And it’s just learning, just do it, learn and keep moving? It’s like, Oh, that’s a proof that doesn’t work. There’s plenty of proof that it does. Just get at it, man.

David 40:43
I love it. Now, Joel, how can people get ahold of you? The best way to find me is on Instagram. If you guys want to reach out to me directly and see a lot of behind the scenes, my family and all that stuff is at Joel Bower official. This is the handle, or you can find me at Very nice. And we will post all of that information in the show notes. Thanks, everyone for tuning in this week. And we’ll see you next week.

Thank you everyone for tuning in to today’s Firing The Man Podcast. If you like this episode, head on over to And check out our resource library for exclusive firing demand discounts on popular e commerce subscription services that is You can also find a comprehensive library of over 50 books books that Ken and I have read in the last few years that have made a meaningful impact on our business, or that head on over to Lastly, check us out on social media at Firing The Man on YouTube at Firing The Man for exclusive content. This is David Schomer and Ken Wilson. We’re out

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