Don’t Quit Your Job to Start a Business Before Learning THIS from Kelly Kennedy

Episode 171

On today’s episode we have the pleasure to interview Kelly Kennedy.  Kelly is a recovering Canadian CPA who left his 9-to-5 job in oil and gas to buy and operate a blog and content writing company, and teaches finance and accounting part-time at a local college. Teaching lets him pay the bills and keeps his wife from divorcing him. 

How can the guests contact?  website, email, social?

https://yourblogworks.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-kennedy-cpa-cma-mba-ba29aa13/

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00;00;00;01 – 00;00;09;07
Speaker 1
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Men podcast, a story for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you are capable.

00;00;09;07 – 00;00;09;23
Speaker 2
Of more.

00;00;09;24 – 00;00;24;00
Speaker 1
Then join us. This show will help you build a business and grow your passive income stream in just a few short hours per day. And now your host serial entrepreneur is David Shoma and Ken Wilson.

00;00;24;02 – 00;00;43;18
Speaker 3
Welcome, everyone to the Firing Demand podcast. On today’s episode, we have the pleasure of interviewing Joe Rocky, who is a business coach, keynote speaker and owner of multiple companies. He helps people achieve their version of passionate success. When he was 25, he launched his first business from scratch in over a decade later, it was strong enough to survive the pandemic.

00;00;43;19 – 00;00;56;09
Speaker 3
Since 2011, he has launched over 15 different entities in multiple industries, to name a few. Podcasting, business, consulting, personal growth coaching, he notes, speaking in real estate investment. Welcome to the show, Joe.

00;00;56;12 – 00;01;01;02
Speaker 2
Well, thank you for having me. This is a topic I am very passionate about, so I’m glad to be here.

00;01;01;03 – 00;01;08;05
Speaker 3
Absolutely. So for those of our listeners who are not familiar with you, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself and your path in the business world?

00;01;08;06 – 00;01;24;29
Speaker 2
Yeah. So long story short, I’ve been in sales since I was 80. And when I was coming through college, much like you, I got the accounting and finance double make. But I was coming out at the last recession where there were people in the first half of the year in the fall taking positions at all of the big accounting houses.

00;01;24;29 – 00;01;40;21
Speaker 2
And just to find out in May and March, you know, that there were any pull away. You know, if you’re firing over 30 years, your it’s about bringing on someone who’s brand new doesn’t know any. That’s pretty basic. So all those accounting jobs that I thought were going to be there had me doing not. So I leaned on my sales ability.

00;01;40;21 – 00;02;11;06
Speaker 2
I said, Well, he said every position except for the required internships I took at my college were salesmen. So I ended up being a financial advisor, which in reality ended up being selling life insurance of annuities, of taking test to be credited of that. And I did it very well. The first year I was rookie of the year, second year was other class of the year, the third year Olaf and I left for a lot of reasons, but one of which was the entire notion of trying to not have any control of my product was not working because there were people that I had met in my first year, but I knew I was selling

00;02;11;06 – 00;02;32;14
Speaker 2
way better product too than in my third year. And I remember distinctly that there was an internal meeting that said, the reason we’re saw this new product, because it’s better for the company and it’s better for you and your company, your clients will deal with it and not be not sit well with me at all. And that was ultimately the final nail up, forced me out the door, along with a lot of other practices that people may understand.

00;02;32;14 – 00;02;52;21
Speaker 2
But I kind of summon up to is your business says this is the only way we do it. And so we’ve always done it, but they can’t give you a results. Reason why that doesn’t sit well with me at all. And you know, the culmination of all that I started by my first rule say that these and from there on I just started diving into business creation and helping other people make things better.

00;02;52;22 – 00;03;11;07
Speaker 4
That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing, Joe. And so as David mentioned, in the end, your bio, you’ve got a wealth of experience in many different industries and different entities that you’ve owned and worked with as entrepreneurs. I think people are always super interested in finding out what are what are some of your best successes and what are some of the entities that that performed poorly?

00;03;11;07 – 00;03;20;24
Speaker 4
Can you share maybe your your top you that were that went really, really well and it was worth the time and energy you put into it and capital and then a couple of them that the duds that we that we all learned from.

00;03;20;24 – 00;03;37;01
Speaker 2
Yeah I guess for those out there who’ve been through it does come they’re buying quite quote about that one. Let’s start with Bam. You know what the what I look at kind of the two biggest failures I’ve had from entities I’ve created. I looked to see what were the trends there, What did I do wrong? I mean, what was the overall situation?

00;03;37;01 – 00;03;56;18
Speaker 2
It just didn’t pan out. Why? And at the end of the day, there were two common threads that not all that I saw my old businesses, but then working with other businesses, gone through the same thing. The first one was the partnership’s expectation or owners expectation about what Our structure was not in line with what reality ended up being.

00;03;56;19 – 00;04;16;25
Speaker 2
And that’s not necessarily someone’s bought someone maliciously thought it was going to be based on that sabotage. It’s one to be. It’s just the reality that we thought it was going to be at this level and it chose a different direction. And I don’t want to be a part of that direction. So when you have two partners that are no longer in line, it’s destined to implode.

00;04;16;27 – 00;04;33;17
Speaker 2
So the example, the first one I live with, this was the second company I created I wanted to create around because part of the reason that attracted me to selling the annuities and life insurance was I want residual income. I wanted to be paid when I was older for work that I did when I was young. It was bury me.

00;04;33;20 – 00;04;57;12
Speaker 2
So at that time there were basically was no subscription based model unless you were collecting taxes, unless you were collecting mortgage or rent, or you were utility. CO Well, I wasn’t eligible to become a government and I wasn’t going to be able to become a utility company. So it looks like I got to be a landlord because and 2011, I was basically the only choice, knowing that now I’ve been different things for residual income, but that was where we started.

00;04;57;12 – 00;05;20;20
Speaker 2
And the partner that I had that was doing this where then it had the same long term goal with my goal, like I said, was I wanted essentially build a whole network. And man, E-40 sat on some beach for next 30 years of my life. In a way, that was the plan my partner had at the time, a first grader, and he just basically wanted to make up that that was going to be between his income and what he needed to pay to get her for college.

00;05;20;21 – 00;05;39;26
Speaker 2
So we were about five houses that or whatever. And you’ve learned that I’m going to buy you out now. We’re done. I know what this was about, the attack and the way it was structured. He was the capital and I was the one running around doing the after. So once the capital was gone that business essentially disappeared. So that was the net result of the person who fell.

00;05;40;03 – 00;06;06;09
Speaker 2
And that was a direct result of us having different expectations and never really, you know, articulating them as they went. They’ll feel. And the reason that, you know, things have imploded were essentially me being bad at interviews for my partners that not being able or maybe it was me. I mean, it’s a failure. It’s it falls on everyone deeply being able to deliver upon what they said they were going to you know, I’m not going to get into specifics and throw people under the bus.

00;06;06;09 – 00;06;22;01
Speaker 2
But long story short, he said he was going to bring certain things to the table. I was able to bring certain things to table and it looked like it was going be perfect zipper and make some good synchronization. And when push came to shove, we were seven months into it, realized we’re just throwing money at energy and try to lay it out.

00;06;22;01 – 00;06;39;17
Speaker 2
And those are the two things that most of which business failures happened with from a partnership level. And then, like I said, obviously I help people in the sales level, which is the other main elephant in the room. But because of my skill set, my company does not have that which is a great and glorious head start that I’d love and share.

00;06;39;22 – 00;06;59;24
Speaker 3
I did. I want to talk about the partnerships and maybe some things that you’ve learned from some of those what we’ll call failed. And I am using air quotes right now because really it’s you’re you’re taking lessons learned out of that and you’re applying them to to the to your next ventures. And so if you’re to structure a partnership now what are some kind of lessons learned are some things you do differently.

00;06;59;24 – 00;07;16;10
Speaker 2
So when I build a business now it’s all built around the revenue stream and that’s it. And then if I got to do extra for a legal reason, we figure out a corporate. But in my mind, the revenue stream is this straightforward. Say you want to first set. People need to know your bakery exist and they want to come to it.

00;07;16;10 – 00;07;49;02
Speaker 2
Second step when they’re at your bakery, they need to feel comfortable enough to give you resources. Normally, money in exchange for a promise of an awesome product. And then obviously the bread has to be awesome on the back. Every company I structure only focuses on those three and where I find that the majority of people mess up is that they are really good at being bakers and they want all of their other partners to be also great bakers, but they neglect people, find the US and people want it to be comfortable enough to the sale base that with to exchange back and forth.

00;07;49;02 – 00;08;08;05
Speaker 2
I have learned and this is tested true over and over again, it is that you have to find someone who wants to do the other departments that you don’t because there is no personality type that will do all of it doesn’t exists. This is a major problem that I encountered whenever I was in a sales situation required me to do wanted to.

00;08;08;05 – 00;08;31;10
Speaker 2
I don’t like doing the whole people five become my bakery. I like doing the ones that are at my bake. I’m making some products, how to change contracts, all that fun stuff. I do like doing the processing of making sure I have a good product at the end. That’s part of why I created business. Well, where people get the mistake is they buy people that I would like do what they’re doing, and because they don’t like doing the other side and that all of a sudden we have a greatest spread on the planet, but no one knows about it.

00;08;31;10 – 00;08;53;02
Speaker 2
And therefore we wonder why we’re going out of business, because we are. They sell the end of the day. The bakery that lasts the longest and is the most successful is not the one with the most bread. It’s the one that does the most sales. And that’s what big spot where people fail in partnerships. So that was an example to say what you need to find is people as frustrates your goal weaknesses and vice versa.

00;08;53;02 – 00;09;04;12
Speaker 2
What a lot of people fail as they try to find someone so much like them because they’re friends or whatever, which is a good thing. I’m working people to trust, but you need to have different skill sets that are complementary and less overlap.

00;09;04;13 – 00;09;15;26
Speaker 4
Yeah, I like that. Definitely makes sense. So we talked about a couple of the larger businesses that were the most for lessons learned partnerships. Can you can you speak to a couple of the ones that were super successful and why you think they were?

00;09;15;26 – 00;09;40;10
Speaker 2
Yeah. So part of the reason they were successful is they had hiccups. I mean, that’s the fact that everything you just said about how you already knew full were every one of my head is had this because under the first one I don’t know necessarily but most successful one but it’s it’s the first one that that you always remember the first one I was doing a flip and that’s basically buying a property that’s all messed up, making it better and then selling the profit.

00;09;40;10 – 00;09;58;23
Speaker 2
That is the equity that I just pre. That’s why TV calls them flippers on TV and sort of worn off definition. Right. The first house I bought you name it I did it wrong. I totally understand what the actual layout of the property was in terms of the why there were the driveway there that I just assumed was to the house.

00;09;58;23 – 00;10;14;27
Speaker 2
I had and it was, it was a half dry. So it had to be what, six months of the year so I could to resell this. And oh, it was, it was a nightmare. The crew, I had just took advantage of me to every which and this is the Carl the Comet, by the way, in Pittsburgh where I’m at Allegheny County.

00;10;14;27 – 00;10;38;18
Speaker 2
It’s like 97.8 of the people who were there first let never do a second. And I would have been in that boat. I did not bit arrogant enough to buy the second house. I was going to flip before I’d finish the first one or four, really. But the headaches started with the first one. So nightmares left and right all over the place as we’re going through the process of the renovation and then the resale, then it comes around through.

00;10;38;18 – 00;10;59;06
Speaker 2
Now I hold this house, which literally is a junk. I mean, it’s it’s in a neighborhood that will eventually sell for a quarter of a billion. But I bought it for 6000 trees like this house is useless. It’s basically a house, a brick Oscar and that’s it. And going through it, being much more intelligent about through that I had about what you’re actually going to do to the house the whole nine yards.

00;10;59;08 – 00;11;19;21
Speaker 2
That second one on Friday when I took my results of everything I lost in the first house, which was wonderful, especially what it was all of my life savings that I had dealing with that whole company of selling their life insurance now not only made all of that loss back, but it made so much profit that I didn’t even think was possible for a single base transaction.

00;11;19;27 – 00;11;43;13
Speaker 2
Wow. So that house did, by the way, sulfur to boarding. So when I. I knew it was a quarter of a billion neighborhood. I’m right. So it made me very glad and seeing that but it was all because there was a problem earlier and then how do I overcome back at that bully as I’ve gone further along in life, I’m able to see things deeper and advance so I don’t have a 40,000 or lost the ME.

00;11;43;14 – 00;12;04;26
Speaker 2
So now it’s like, Oh, we can see this is going to be a problem. What’s address the ballot adults rather than being scared to talk up. And that’s what the other thing is. I learned how to become an owner through this process and how to become an effective manager and leader that I never really had an example of in any of my positions before.

00;12;04;26 – 00;12;21;07
Speaker 2
Every single manager, owner or boss, whatever you would want to call it. A lack of a better word was horror. And the fact that I didn’t have any of this, you know, any examples of how to do it correctly, it was a learning on the job process. But I. Beverly Gladden and say 15 years later, I have fixed that.

00;12;21;07 – 00;12;37;26
Speaker 2
And now I’m glad that I’m able to teach other people how to become successful managers and not sell like it’s the 1960s. And I do have a bet. And part of this leads to this is I didn’t thoroughly believe in how much behind why I do my business is. I believe salespeople will help, will work, and that’s not a job.

00;12;37;26 – 00;13;02;14
Speaker 2
So any macro problem that the politicians say are destroying this country, whether it’s true or not, the salespeople are the ones that ultimately make it go away. So if you believe there’s ageism or racism or sexism or any of that, salespeople will one that will race it. Because at the end of the day, successful salesperson is bringing something that will benefit everyone involved because it will help you and it will help us.

00;13;02;17 – 00;13;20;14
Speaker 2
And that’s what true sales is. And it’s that ego exchange and just helping to find the best connections to make that happen rather than the 1960s rule of helping someone into you, making you feel so bad. If you don’t buy this and you never come back to used car dealership again. And that’s the dichotomy I’m trying to fight here.

00;13;20;14 – 00;13;32;21
Speaker 2
But the sad truth is the vast majority of the world still sells in the 1960s model, and they just don’t realize they’re doing which Swaggy Commerce is taking off. But that that’s the opportunity that e-commerce is at it.

00;13;32;23 – 00;13;52;13
Speaker 3
It’s a it’s a better shopping experience, at least that’s our opinion. As we were preparing for the show, I learned that you had an accounting and finance background. And so our next two questions are going to kind of be geared towards that. So from a capital perspective, what are some things business owners should be doing to fund growth in terms of like taking on particular types of debt or equity?

00;13;52;19 – 00;13;56;06
Speaker 3
Can you talk a little bit about that or bootstrapping all include that one?

00;13;56;06 – 00;14;23;11
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I mean, we’re getting into the nuts and bolts of the math behind it. I always try to say you need to recognize the capital was necessary. You don’t have capital, you’re going to eventually short, but you also need to recognize that capital is not an excuse not to work. You know, if you want to be truly just and giving someone a bunch of money and they’re going to make something happen, that’s great, but you’re not going to become a truly silent owner and recipient of your income.

00;14;23;11 – 00;14;55;11
Speaker 2
And so down the road, you don’t need to be active in all day of what your thing is. Do it. So I start from those two extremes because people will kind of find the mindset in the middle of the law. Salary shortages is whatever you think your initial expenses are going to be. I always say double them at least because that sort of it’s unstable more the less stable, more risky area you got to have make sure you have your capital there, because there is nothing worse than being like three steps away from victory and running out of money and having because you will inevitably put your heart, your soul into this.

00;14;55;11 – 00;15;20;19
Speaker 2
And it’s the equivalent of having a child but not having any food to feed. After he’s nine months old, you’re going to see it wither and die. You know, people take that very real because it’s our lives, it’s all our capital and all that. While I say if it doesn’t work, we’re not. And not to mention all the emotion you put into it, your sleepless nights, your passion, your dreams, your your thinking of what it’s going to be, what I could do with this as it grows older.

00;15;20;19 – 00;15;41;06
Speaker 2
So to answer the initial question about Pablo, you need to make sure that you have enough now out there. Now, in terms of how do we make sure we have more as we’re going, you need to also be able to recognize that what is your sales pipeline going to be? How long is it going to take from. We had this idea until realistically the first revenue comes in and is that revenue about to come?

00;15;41;06 – 00;16;03;29
Speaker 2
It is triple or as a blasting. Oh, how strong is that revenue going to be? And these are the types of thought processes that there’s a mindset of person. I just want to dive in everything that will blow off this conversation. This conversation dictates your longevity because you just dive into it expecting a big rush of revenue coming in consistently and quickly.

00;16;03;29 – 00;16;22;09
Speaker 2
If that doesn’t happen, you will die, you know, same as as a plant that doesn’t get what it’s out. So this is a long way of saying you need to actually think this through and go through it. And this is one of these things where it’s such a right. People are just dive in and people who super plan forever have you.

00;16;22;10 – 00;16;41;02
Speaker 2
You need to be honest with yourself. Where do I live on that spectrum? Am I the kind of person who jumps in and goes for or might not sit around a plan forever and have 7000 spreadsheets on my computer and then figure it out? You seen on the Internet all kind of different equations about what the capital recommendation is, all that and the other.

00;16;41;02 – 00;16;58;01
Speaker 2
And I’m not this Cali idea, but at the end of the day, you need the harmony of both sides. You need to be able to say, I want to go and do this. This was realistically thinking of how long it’s going to take to get there and make it happen together. Because if you just are worried the other know the company will never get launched or be, it’ll never match what you need both together.

00;16;58;02 – 00;17;04;01
Speaker 2
So all of that answer your question of I’m hoping to get it, but I will elaborate wherever necessary.

00;17;04;02 – 00;17;13;16
Speaker 3
No, I did that did kind of second part of that question would be what do you think most business owners get wrong when it comes to running the financial operations of their business?

00;17;13;18 – 00;17;16;21
Speaker 2
That’s that’s the biggest mistake but that I’m not going to into.

00;17;16;27 – 00;17;35;23
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I think that as entrepreneurs or perpetual optimists in that can come to bite you. I remember Ken and I were having a budgeting conversation the other day and I was like, All right, it is time we’re mapping out cash flows. Let’s put on our pessimist hat. For now. We’re almost always wearing the optimist hat, but expenses will be greater than we think.

00;17;35;23 – 00;17;42;10
Speaker 3
Revenues will take longer to come in. And so it’s yeah, kind of taking off one hat and putting on the other is sometimes challenging.

00;17;42;10 – 00;18;11;04
Speaker 2
So that’s true of our personal lives as well. This is just about our business. And since obviously your show is about overcoming the man and getting out of here, getting out away from him, this is one thing I tell every person who’s doing this. It might be hard and might take a while, say three months of your expenses and just have it in a checking account or savings kind of a bag, because that’s the only true way you can go to a different position without panicking, you know, because if you need a paycheck tomorrow, you’re not going to be able to survive and you get fired.

00;18;11;06 – 00;18;29;01
Speaker 2
What is your next week going to be? What kind of position are you going to access compared to If I had time to think about it, it was through the through actual logic. Have other people around me. It’s a 90 day situation where you end up at the end of that year where as compared to, Oh, I better get to the first thing.

00;18;29;01 – 00;18;47;04
Speaker 2
Now Oldsmobile pay the rent and that that’s the thing I recommend. Everyone in businesses need to look the same way. Just as you said, pessimism is going to happen where wherever is not cost, not really. Surprise. And as a result, spending, spending, power of our buyers is going to be strained. So probably we’ll take one. The way I tell people, this is what I’m writing my book about.

00;18;47;04 – 00;19;03;24
Speaker 2
My sense is that you need to live in a realistic optimism space. You know, realistic. What is the conditions of the world that’s going on right now? Well, inflations go out, paid people out to work. Apparently wasn’t good. Great. So that’s going to be a problem. And as a result, people have less money to buy for our product.

00;19;03;24 – 00;19;23;20
Speaker 2
How can we position our product as the must have now that we’re prioritizing our money in a way that we haven’t done in five years as our average buyer will be doing? How do we are positioned our product as being on that top must do list right up there with health, water and shelter? How do we make ourselves right there in that?

00;19;23;25 – 00;19;31;25
Speaker 2
And that’s that’s the element that people need to figure out. That’s the challenge of this new recession we’re about to be diving through, whether they call it it or not.

00;19;32;02 – 00;19;52;17
Speaker 4
Interesting It and I definitely agree with you. That’s a whole other show on itself. I think we probably dive into that next question that I that I have for you, Joe, is it’s something that almost probably all business owners face at some point in time. It’s overwhelm you’re you’re managing a team. Maybe you have a team, maybe you have, you know, some assistance, some you’re doing cashflow budgeting inventory.

00;19;52;17 – 00;20;07;14
Speaker 4
It’s it just piles up emails and then you’re overwhelmed and then you burn out. And so what kind of tips and tricks do you do you help business owners with from from when they hit that brick wall of overwhelm to help them out and get some, you know, some mindspace, some clarity and refocus?

00;20;07;14 – 00;20;29;25
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So the thing that I say this applicable to every person, regardless of whether you’re a business owner or just as a civilian, if you will, the first thing you do or you need to do is list all of the things that go on that are causing this problem. As you said, email stuff not getting done and feeling like I have something in the back of my mind, but remember what it is and therefore it’s weighing on me.

00;20;29;28 – 00;20;50;16
Speaker 2
All of this stuff that happens, We need to figure out is it relevant or not very first by like, does this need to be in my look at what we will quickly find out is some of the worst anxiety creators don’t. So let’s figure out how to get them out of my life. Okay, I’m going to turn off notification for half of the out of my people that are irrelevant that I can’t do anything about personally.

00;20;50;16 – 00;21;04;05
Speaker 2
I don’t have any boards to turn on to myself. Why? If I’m never going to find the kid anyway, I know the reason is most of the time it’s a divorced dad took his daughter out. The mom’s being a bitch, so you might need to edit that up, but that’s a fact. So I don’t care what it gives.

00;21;04;05 – 00;21;30;20
Speaker 2
The most anxiety filled ringtone coming out of an iPhone ever. I’m a habit that there’s nothing I could do about. I don’t want. I look at my whole emails. I put unsubscribe faster than anyone else on it the first time I get something of this is not going to be actual beneficial. It’s either unsubscribe or block one or two of them and you just go through a list of all and then you start getting the trickier like relationships with people that like I try to think I should be dealing with this person, but I’m not really sure.

00;21;30;20 – 00;21;51;01
Speaker 2
And bats, whenever I kind of invite you to say, just instance in Leicester within your family or your business, just turn it off for six months or six days and see what happens. And then six days becomes six weeks and six months. And you had the ads or during that period of time, if you actually want to have a relationship with that person, you’ll find yourself in that bit with them.

00;21;51;02 – 00;22;12;13
Speaker 2
If not, the anxiety will go away as they disappear, and that is really the starting point of what you need to do to declutter your own brain and your own schedule. Now, it turns out specifically in your business, it takes it to a next step. You need to wholly know what all of your employees are supposed to do and what they all are doing.

00;22;12;13 – 00;22;34;12
Speaker 2
And the vast majority of business owners fail here, especially the smaller the business. I know that’s paradox. You think that there’s only six people in our office. I would know everything they’re doing and why, but the reality is get up and most people don’t because they have the wrong compensation packages for their employee because it is so much easier to do.

00;22;34;12 – 00;22;50;19
Speaker 2
As I said before, this is the way we always do it. So here’s what I don’t know. Your hourly or your biggest salary, and then we’re going to give you a bonus structure maybe elsewhere. I’m going to give an example here. College may overcome that because it’s very important. And I start with this position because it could be applied to every position.

00;22;50;19 – 00;23;11;22
Speaker 2
But if I start lower on the ladder stories, I would imagine that you own a hotel and that the only thing that you care from your housekeeping department is that the rooms are clean and that they are done quickly. I find that the new burping come and check it so you can either do the traditional we’re going to train our staff, pay them hourly, and just keep it moving.

00;23;11;22 – 00;23;26;27
Speaker 2
It is what it is. It’s not get up to yell at them, fight. Do you know the way that every other housekeeper is ever been basically sent the diaper? That’s all easy. It’s safe. You’re not only yelling, it’s like punching on for power. No one’s ever going to yell at you because that’s what everyone else we could say.

00;23;26;27 – 00;23;41;10
Speaker 2
Hey, there’s two things I care about Housekeeping division. I care that it’s done clean. I care that it’s done. So here a word, and we’re going to have a scale. If it’s a quality done, I’m paying you this much more room, this much for BCB. And if you do it after that fun, except one or not, they paid it all.

00;23;41;10 – 00;24;01;08
Speaker 2
And I’m going to have you guys work on two of your rooms on the first floor, two of your brains on the second floor, and each floors I have a different manager value. So that way there’s no favorite. It’s just you do this here, you do this there. The judges become boiled out that way. And what you will find from your staff is that you are opening up the door for them to do innovation.

00;24;01;10 – 00;24;26;21
Speaker 2
Let them figure out what is best for that. Maybe they’re better if they do the bathroom first in all of the room and then circle back and do the rest of the maybe the better if they do one room and it’s fine, but they will figure that out and sell in a way that they are invested in your company and in themselves and giving you a better result with all you have it go for as long as you are consistent in the way that you’re evaluating that, which is easy to do.

00;24;26;21 – 00;24;47;24
Speaker 2
You just go through the management level with this exercise. But as long as they are consistently treated the same way, they now care more about your business because you are paying them more based upon their result. And the ones that want to provide good results will become attracted and stay with your company longer. And the ones that don’t, which by the way, you don’t want as business owner, will phase themselves out.

00;24;47;24 – 00;25;10;10
Speaker 2
And at the end of the day, will you be paying more on the hourly rate than you want? Yes, absolutely. No questions asked. What would you be paying more overall on the gross? Probably not. What your client, your Maggie, all the station employees are going to have a much better experience working for you because it’s going to be they get paid a lot more money control by far.

00;25;10;13 – 00;25;25;17
Speaker 2
So now I think, Carl, I can lead all of these rooms to a 8:00 and 2:00 because I’m that fast and good what used to take me for now, I could be home in five for my kids. Come on, stall. And I get paid like I was working Tor six. It’s always been across the board. Those are for you.

00;25;25;17 – 00;25;42;29
Speaker 2
Stay with you. And that also when you’re hiring people, it is very easy to build morale. I want to be like, I’m actually number two is this. They’re going to reward me for doing good. And again, I start with the housekeeping example, because essentially the janitor of every position we’re at and it applies all the way up to the top.

00;25;42;29 – 00;26;02;05
Speaker 2
So for some reason we understand this. We’re talking about CEO. We give you giant bonuses based upon your stock performance and your sales, but we don’t look at it any other position. And the reality, this is the more you get your compensation tied to what your employees actually you want them to do, the more accomplished and the more results your company will have.

00;26;02;05 – 00;26;18;24
Speaker 2
And this will bear a long way to get back to your going to have less headache because the things that matter to your business will prevail. And they themselves will filter out the things that are irrelevant. They’re no longer going to be checking Twitter, whatever. They’re in the middle of back view with the back bathroom floor because it costs them.

00;26;18;24 – 00;26;29;15
Speaker 2
But they’re now going to be just focused on the work and getting it done. And that’s really how you do this. Again, not the normal, not the easy way. It’s not the hourly rate, the salary thing, but it’s obsessed.

00;26;29;15 – 00;26;45;11
Speaker 3
That makes a lot of sense. And I think that aligning interests with business owners and employees makes a ton of sense. And yeah, that’s been something that we’ve been trying to get a little bit more creative on in our business. One thing that we’ve curious your thoughts on this. As a business owner, I am interested in generating net income.

00;26;45;11 – 00;27;12;22
Speaker 3
Like that’s basically what I’m, that’s what I’m after. And there are certain positions that don’t necessarily translate. It doesn’t translate perfectly, or they could do an excellent job at what they’re doing. However, other parts of the company may not function properly and net income either goes up or down. And so like if per hour is a metric, do you have any other suggestions like if per hours on one end of the spectrum in a discretionary bonus is on the other, like any other compensation systems that have worked well for you?

00;27;12;24 – 00;27;34;20
Speaker 2
Well, the commission compensation, why does that? And that’s what I believe to be the best. So you have a position these exist that are outside of the revenues that are not getting more people come in for the door, come to our website. They’re not actively converting closings or they’re not getting the product to the buyer If they’re not in that stream in the first place, by definition, they’re an expense.

00;27;34;24 – 00;27;55;15
Speaker 2
Your and this is where things that you really get to be major business is you know before about utter all the time like legal departments and h.r. Depart like at the end of the day, it’s an insurance policy. Well, they’re not doing anything. Increase your revenue. And actually, in the hours when they’re involved with the design of your product enrollment costing you revenue is are holding you back for better innovation.

00;27;55;15 – 00;28;14;12
Speaker 2
So the answer to that basically is at this position is not increasing. But why is it that’s that’s the first fundamental question you ask. Let’s go back to the thing before outlining the headaches we have. You know, there is value in not being sued or losing. Your environment’s fair. What is the amount and what is the likelihood that even happier?

00;28;14;12 – 00;28;34;28
Speaker 2
All I’m doing is basically buying shoes from Adidas and then my websites pumping them out to the client, not getting sued of Adidas shoes messed up. I’m not getting sued. A FedEx sends it to the wrong house. Actual ability of getting net walk thumbs or push it off to whoever actually did mess up. So therefore I should have a look.

00;28;35;02 – 00;28;51;01
Speaker 2
And then in terms of the age or stop, I’ll, you know, do you think that your employees are going to sue you or not? There are obviously state rules. You have to up your jiomart try to say step around the law or anything with that. But aside from those legal mandates, there’s no real need to dive into that.

00;28;51;01 – 00;29;10;04
Speaker 2
So what I would say is, is we got to figure out how do we directly correlate what this person is doing to the Revit. Now, if they’re a manager, they’re making sure everything’s working correctly. It’s the same deal. It’s just a different percentage based upon what they’re overseeing. So you make sure that they’re on top of what the employees are doing, Correct.

00;29;10;06 – 00;29;24;13
Speaker 2
So my answer is, is almost always to a direct way of commission. And there’s not a direct way to correlate what they’re doing to revenue. Something’s wrong with that position in the first place. We’ve got to seriously evaluate should it even exist.

00;29;24;14 – 00;29;41;29
Speaker 4
That’s interesting. A Definitely a good way to look at that conversation has been awesome. Joy Like I always translate it to someone being on the battlefield, like the conversation with you, we can tell you’ve been on the battlefield of business for a very long time and it shows and I’m really enjoying the conversation. So a couple more questions before we get into the fire.

00;29;41;29 – 00;29;58;02
Speaker 4
Around one, if you know, you help your business owners all the time, right? You help them kind of unlock their potential. They’re stuck on something. They have problems. So this is what you do, you know, full time. And can you share with the listeners what are a couple of common problems that you that you see all the time?

00;29;58;02 – 00;30;00;05
Speaker 4
And then how do you help business owners solve those?

00;30;00;05 – 00;30;22;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of them. So let’s start with the one that I think holds more people back than they realize and probably ever will know, and that is the lack of competent. And you know, this starts with people, especially mad people. They have this mentality that I can compartmentalize my life. And how I am as a father could be different.

00;30;22;06 – 00;30;36;05
Speaker 2
The hell I am as a brother, different how I am as a saw, as an owner, as an employee, etc. And we think it’s because we all through remember that time where they woke up and the term paper was due at 4:00? I haven’t started it yet, but God damn it, it will be done on time. And we’ve all been there.

00;30;36;05 – 00;30;54;09
Speaker 2
We’ve all made it through the situation, block the rest of life out. And yes, we can do that in the short run. And by short running two days or less, we cannot do that in the long run. And what ends up happening is whatever our highest points are, if there is a point, our light that is presented as a low point, it will balance out.

00;30;54;09 – 00;31;11;26
Speaker 2
We eventually will go to the low points that we allow in our lives across the board. That’s what, how and most people recognize this and that deteriorates or conflict. So the first thing that I do try to help people out of this is we need to lean upon what are we actually passionate about and become much more knowledgeable in that arena.

00;31;11;27 – 00;31;28;26
Speaker 2
And this doesn’t matter if it’s Harry Potter or Harry or Jets or building a business or whatever. If you have a passion about it and you become deeply knowledgeable about it, you inherently become more confident. And to talking about it, I know all the spells and all the different styles of the new one. Harry Potter. A lot of people will care.

00;31;29;03 – 00;31;49;04
Speaker 2
Well, you’ll be able to find your group that does and build it up and be able to teach people. And that’s an inherent confidence that comes out. Competence is also one of the very few attributes that the human species overall universally agrees is a track. So the more confident that you can be, the more your confidence boils out.

00;31;49;04 – 00;32;13;08
Speaker 2
And that is the first step of building out a better work. The second step is you need to have the ability how people, when they’re feeling something, to have an environment where they can get it. And basically this is a former career where I’m feeling something inside and I need to figure out a way to say it. Even it becomes out weird or stuttery or not grammatically correct or whatever.

00;32;13;15 – 00;32;35;11
Speaker 2
You need to figure out a way to get it out of it. Allow a buyer where we can receive that information as well without freaking out. Know we’ve all had these bosses or that if it wasn’t their idea, they were never going to implement it and they were popular. Shane You were coming up with a better idea and at the end of the day, that is the worst business culture you could absolutely create.

00;32;35;14 – 00;32;58;28
Speaker 2
And you need to have the ability to be say, Hey, I recognize you best. Different thoughts and insights. Help me out with it. It’s a very good way to go back to that question before. Why is this job here? Well, let’s ask everyone around us, see what they’re doing. It’s not necessarily at all is a bad person. We want to buy or Sally, it’s we want to make sure she’s doing something efficient and productive for the company.

00;32;58;28 – 00;33;19;00
Speaker 2
So all of that, and that’s the kind of workflow courage that needs to be going around, courage that I could hear or I don’t want to hear about, like Slow encouraged. You’ve actually taught me stuff and I’m going to tell you. So that also repeated in here with humility. But because humility is still tenuously set, it’s the balance between saying, I am not the most important person ever.

00;33;19;06 – 00;33;48;27
Speaker 2
I am the elder bowed out in the mirror. I Nor is it you are insignificant. I don’t care. But it’s that balance in between and looking at the relationship that we had. This is how we each should act. And at the final note of this is you need to act in the spot where all your decisions are based upon fairness and in a just manner like we are choosing to go with this option because we believe it to be the best option, not because we’re the one set it or you’re not.

00;33;48;27 – 00;34;09;18
Speaker 2
But what? You said it. You know, I’m hiring Bodie because I believe you’re the best person for this job, not because I’ll look good on a PR statement or a magazine, whatever. People write this book. And when you combine those or think knowledge and confidence, courage, humility and justice, you will fix all of those problems and your company will start grow.

00;34;09;21 – 00;34;18;11
Speaker 2
And that starts with you, an individual owner. And if you can make it the embedding culture to your business, there’s nothing to stop you. It doesn’t matter what you’re selling, it will work.

00;34;18;13 – 00;34;27;27
Speaker 3
Very nice, Very nice. Round things out Before we get into the fire round, can you tell us a little bit more about elite business conversations and how that could potentially be beneficial to our listeners?

00;34;27;27 – 00;34;50;10
Speaker 2
Well, business conversations is how you hire me to get this knowledge for your business, whether I’d be delighted and offensive for you directly, or whether I’d be presenting it to the entire entity in the form of keynote addresses or training sessions. When you find us at elite business conversations dot com, our first step will be grab a quick little ten minute chat and see where even a good fit for each other, because that’s the first that we’re going to work on.

00;34;50;10 – 00;35;00;21
Speaker 2
If not, not, that’s okay. And then we discussed both elite business conversations. It’s how you can get access to all this knowledge on Cherie and how we can turn your business to the next great success story.

00;35;00;22 – 00;35;10;04
Speaker 4
That’s awesome. Well, cool. So, Joe, every for every guest we bring on, we run them through the ringer, and it’s called the fire round. Are you ready? What is your favorite book?

00;35;10;07 – 00;35;21;22
Speaker 2
I got three of all it’s popular is extreme ownership. It’s that ten hour workweek by Tim Ferriss, and it’s my own book that will be coming out the second half of the year. So sorry to the shameless plug, but I love what I read.

00;35;21;24 – 00;35;23;16
Speaker 3
What’s the what’s the title of that book?

00;35;23;19 – 00;35;45;02
Speaker 2
It’s still under the publisher will let me know. But they write a book is about using your sales skills to overcome a deficit of money. And this was an excited while I was that was at Las Vegas when I only had $500 cash in my pocket and $250 of credit left on my account at points. That was during that period.

00;35;45;05 – 00;35;56;05
Speaker 2
The $40,000 house lost over the next one took off. So it was how I survived Las Vegas and ended up spending probably close to five grand just using sales skills on the casino floor.

00;35;56;05 – 00;36;00;08
Speaker 4
Nice. Yeah. When that’s out, we’ll have you back on the show and we can dive into that one I.

00;36;00;09 – 00;36;01;06
Speaker 2
Would love to have. Yeah.

00;36;01;07 – 00;36;03;01
Speaker 4
Awesome. Next one. What are your hobbies?

00;36;03;04 – 00;36;19;19
Speaker 2
I throw axes before I dislocated my shoulder. I was in the top three in the world at Worlds. I finished 192 in Toronto and I believe that that was like 10 minutes for 12. It started, so I would have been 19. That was in February. Then we got shut down in March. So yeah, that’s awesome.

00;36;19;19 – 00;36;33;05
Speaker 4
I literally took my daughter to Kansas City two weekends ago and we threw axes and when I went back to the hotel room, there was the World or the ax throwing championships were on TV. I was like, I was so impressed. I love that. That’s awesome.

00;36;33;08 – 00;36;51;16
Speaker 2
It is so fun. When we started doing that, I went my brother had a party at it and I sat down with my best friend at a bar and we looked at what people’s scores were that whatever they were like. We actually tried this all the time. We could that. And now he is in the top ten of the world and he won their U.S. Open last year.

00;36;51;16 – 00;37;03;02
Speaker 2
He did dislocate a shot, but that’s not how it goes in Somalia. Anyone get into it’s not a sprint game. It’s a skill and fundamental repeating. It’s a drinking game as well.

00;37;03;03 – 00;37;09;00
Speaker 4
That’s awesome. All right. Next question. What is one thing that you do not miss about working for the man?

00;37;09;01 – 00;37;11;22
Speaker 2
This is the way we always did it. So you’re going to be forced to do it?

00;37;11;28 – 00;37;17;26
Speaker 4
Yeah. Last one. What do you think sets apart successful entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail or never get started.

00;37;17;26 – 00;37;22;11
Speaker 2
Being able to live the commission life stuff. It’s incredibly stressful, but going to work so is a.

00;37;22;11 – 00;37;24;25
Speaker 4
Great, very goal. David, you were to close out the show.

00;37;24;25 – 00;37;28;24
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Joe People are interested in getting in touch with you. What would be the best way?

00;37;28;26 – 00;37;33;19
Speaker 2
Reach out to us through business conversation, sort of like a seven minute chat.

00;37;33;20 – 00;37;42;02
Speaker 3
Awesome. And we’ll post links to that in the show notes. Joe, I want to thank you for being a guest on the podcast. And when that book comes out, let’s get in touch and have you back on.

00;37;42;02 – 00;37;44;19
Speaker 2
I would love to be back. Yeah, second half of the year, guys.

00;37;44;20 – 00;37;46;05
Speaker 3
Awesome. Sounds great. Thank you.

00;37;46;07 – 00;37;46;20
Speaker 2
Thank you.