David 0:00
Are you looking to grow your sales on Amazon? Chances are if you’re not selling on Amazon’s international marketplaces, you are leaving some serious money on the table. What keeps a lot of people from selling internationally are all the confusing hoops you have to jump through to get started. That is why we worked with Kevin Sanderson from maximizing ecommerce on our international expansion. Kevin and his team take care of the details and guide you through the process of expanding so that you can grow your sales and reach new customers. If you’d like to find out if working with Kevin and his team is right for you head over to https://maximizingecommerce.com/fire, once again that is https://maximizingecommerce.com/fire.
Pat Lum 0:46
Don’t spend a lot on your first product, do some market research and ultimately just have a good product that people love because the rest is just like bells and whistles.
Intro 0:56
And so welcome everyone to the Firing the Man podcast a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you were capable of more than join us. This show will help you build a business and grow your passive income streams in just a few short hours per day. And now your host serial entrepreneurs David Schomer and Ken Wilson.
- Tracy, John A. (Author)
- English (Publication Language)
- 384 Pages - 11/01/2011 (Publication Date) - For Dummies (Publisher)
David 1:20
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man podcast on today’s episode, we continue our interview with Pat Lum discussing strategies in PPC and tactics that are working in 2022. If you didn’t listen to part one, go back to last week’s episode and tune in hope you enjoy the show. So this leads into another question I was wanting to talk to you about and that is the topic of cannibalizing sales with PPC. And so I will share with you just a general trend that we’ve observed. One thing that we look at pretty like on a weekly basis is what percentage of our sales came from PPC in what came from organic. And we have it varies by brand. But we love those brands that have a lot of organic sales, right. And you always hear people say, drive PPC, you may break even at PPC but that’s going to drive organic sales. And at the end of the day, we’re interested in generating net income. And so what we’ve done is we had brands that were running at, say 15 to 20% Tacos. So for our listeners, that would be your ad spend divided by total sales. And we’ve trimmed that back to between eight and 10%. And what we’ve seen in a lot of instances is that our organic sales have increased. And so how does that relate to can’t like cannibalizing sales, my thought is that if you could make an organic sale, or Amazon could take a sponsored product ad charge you and you still make that sale, they’re gonna go with the latter, because it’s going to put more money in their pocket. And so we are constantly on a weekly basis asking ourselves, what’s the right level of spend for this at this account? And so what we’ve done is we’ve trimmed ad spend until we see that the relationship between organic and PPC sales kind of flattened out. are we engaging in a thoughtful experiment? Or is this mental gymnastics? And are, are we missing a really important piece of information?
Pat Lum 3:25
So yeah, so we take those as an important one to look at it, we’re actually so generally we think of it as net profit dollars. So a net profit dollars per SKU. So any activities that you can do to increase that are helpful. So it’s sort of it sort of takes us agnostic, in a sense, it goes right to the bottom line, and tries to optimize for that, if that makes sense. So and it’s on a SKU level too. So like general, just a general benchmark would be like a 10% Taiko, so that’s actually like, that’s very healthy, that’s mature account that’s running, it might not be growing super aggressively, because new things aren’t being pushed. But 10% is like, if it’s like up to 15, I would say is like a good mature running account that’s making money. And then beyond that, what you want to look at in terms of aggressively pushing stuff is like is net profit dollars per SKU, and that I find to be pretty instructive, because because that allows you to spend like that was you have whatever TACoS you want on SKU level, as long as the organic sales were there to catch you on the other side?
David 4:24
Got it. Okay. That’s a helpful way to think about it for the listeners who tuned out there as we went into the weeds. Thanks for hanging in there. But anyway, no, that’s really helpful. Ken, over to you, for sure.
Ken 4:35
And so I want to just turn back the dial a little bit and speak to something Pat said earlier is that it’s almost like, you can’t polish a turd. And so if you have, you know, if your product is just horrible, like none of the stuff we’re talking about is going to work. And so, like Pat alluded to earlier, like fundamentals, like getting a great product sourcing a great product, testing it R&D, before you ever get to The point where you’re trying to dial in marketing is super helpful. And I totally agree, like, use those resources on that as well as conversion rate optimization before ever even trying to go deep into that. So Pat’s interesting question, and this is completely anonymous, just at a high level, but in your experience, and last, you know, 10 years of doing business in Amazon, you interact with lots of sellers, products, different accounts. Have you seen any common threads that you’ve observed? And they’ll be two answers, one, A, the top 20%, like, who’s crushing it and be deterred? Like, well, what doesn’t work?
Pat Lum 5:39
Yeah, yeah. Yes. So it’s a great point you just made in regards to the product, like the great product is the prerequisite, that’s the ticket to entry. So it doesn’t, it never wavers. And so just for folks that, you know, if you find you have a three and a half star average, you know, a four star average, you don’t have to do sponsored display right now. Right? Like, you just fix up the house a little bit and get you know, and you’ll be You’ll be much happier in the long term, it’s, I guess, it’s the issue is like, you can run a sponsored display ad now. But you can’t talk to your supplier and get the issues, fix and analyze the customer complaints. And do that all in 30 seconds. Like that’s, it’s just work, right. But that’s what it takes in terms of okay, so I spent, I spent a lot of time this past year looking at six figure brands versus seven figure brands, because there’s an interesting like, gap between them. There’s a few things that kind of that six figure brands would, because even backing up a second, like why is it important to go from six to seven figures. The reason in my estimation, is that your you know, most sellers are actually not making a lot of money, like actual profit running a six figure Amazon business, after FBA fees, cost of goods, advertising, you know, it’s not, it’s just not that much. So if we want to fire the man and get free and like, have total control over financials and time, it’s really more towards that seven figure range where that stuff starts happening just by virtue of that, like these businesses don’t have they have physical product margin. So it takes a certain amount of scale, to sort of get to escape velocity. So it’s important, like it’s an imperative to get to seven, at least, right, that’s a good place to be. And you’re also sturdier, too. So if a product goes out, you probably have multiple products, and you can take a hit to right you’re just more durable as business. So if we agree that it’s important to go from six to seven, the question is how, and I think there’s the first thing is like it from six to seven, like you start to have to stop being like an owner operator and doing everything yourself, you have to write down some SOPs, Google Docs, or Asana just don’t make it complicated. Just wherever you want to write down instructions for the stuff that you’re doing every day, take it and give it to your team. And it doesn’t have to be expensive, right? You think delegation may have to be expensive, but you can find some folks on Upwork, or get an agency or just get your nephew to help you out on weekends. Like it’s not, it can be flexible like that. So you just start getting stuff off your plate and start documenting things. Second thing is like the biggest sellers, I’ve found, I have never seen an enormous seller, like I’m talking like 10 10 million plus, that didn’t have a ton of products. This is another sort of basic truth that people seem to ignore is like, I call it the mini fishhooks theory, like you’re gonna have to just launch a ton of stuff, in order to scale revenue on Amazon, don’t think that you’re gonna have five products, and they’re all going to be hits, that’s just not the case, like one to four to one in five products will be a hit and carry a lot of revenue in for you. And the rest, you may just have to scale back or discontinue or there’ll be moderate players, but you just have to launch enough stuff in order to get a hit that the algorithms seem to like, and then yeah, and then do that it’s sort of a less pronounced version of like Tic TOCs going viral on social media where it just it because we’re students of these algorithms, like a tick tock will just pick up from an anonymous account and get a million views. That’s a very real reality on that platform on Amazon, it’s a little bit less exaggerated, but you’ll still see that one in four to one and five products will be really good. And then the rest just won’t take off for whatever reason. And it’s being sort of agnostic about that, and just acknowledging that reality and then launching a bunch of products, and they don’t all necessarily have to be closely related and brand building and that sort of thing. You know, err more on the side of, you know, pursue opportunities as you find them. Yeah, so SOPs and documentation and just launching a ton of stuff, I think is are two good places to start. And then the stuff that you launch has to be good to our points. Now, Pat, one
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- Brooke, E. (Author)
- English (Publication Language)
David 9:19
thing you said that I definitely agree with is getting stuff off your plate and kind of getting out of the mindset of an owner operator. When I look at my business, the first one I started, there’s several inflection points either were something went really well or something went very bad, badly. One of the first inflection points that I had was when I hired asteroid X. I remember talking to Ken Ken was the one that recommended them or recommended you guys. And he said, What are you doing for PPC? And I said, I self manage it. I’m really good at spreadsheets. I’m a CPA. And he was like, Well, how are you doing? Are you profitable? And I was like, No, I’m not what it made me realize was you can be really good at spreadsheets, and not good at PPC. There are two different skill sets one may help with the other. But and that was something that if you look at my revenue and income, that was a big inflection point early on. And so can you tell us more about asteroid X, the services that you provide? And the typical customer that would be a good fit for asteroid X?
Pat Lum 10:17
Yeah, it’s, again, because we’re an advertising company. So we can’t fix the product. So that that part is on the brands to, to bring I’ve seen, we just recently saw, like, you know, and again, results, not typical, but we saw zero to $20,000 a month revenue increase this total revenue in about 45 days, just because the product was so good. Like, there’s more shoppers on Amazon than ever. And so it’s an interesting opportunity for that reason, but it’s based on product ID and the whole door hinges on product. It’s a small hinge that moves a big door. And so yeah, in terms of our work, like we’re the Amazon advertising specialists, it’s all we do. And that’s all we’ve been doing for about six years now, six, seven years, because it is one of those once you have a good product, it’s a very powerful point of leverage to scale an Amazon business. It’s pretty much one. Yeah, we’re just I’m just curious that for you guys, like what were some of the other inflection points that you’ve found in your search journey. So far, I have
David 11:09
a couple. So yourself manage going from self managing PPC to hiring somebody, I would say but the one before that was just hiring somebody to take 10 hours of work off of my plate a week having one VA that was huge, especially because I was working a full time job. And so I could give an hour of instruction, and have 10 hours of work completed. And that was another one. I would also say like hiring in areas of that I was weak. And I knew I was weak. Photoshop is an example of this, I took I spent two complete weekends, like 12 hour days trying to learn Photoshop. At the end of those two weekends, I was still not great at Photoshop. And so I think like a lot around team building. And then I would also set brand registry was one where getting a trademark it was a pain, but that we saw our conversion rate go up quite a bit from that. And I would say most recently, it’s been international expansion. However, you’ll need to check back with me in a year. And I’ll tell you which ones we really like and which ones we don’t. If you ask me today, like as I sit here recording this, I’m a huge fan of Canada, I’m not quite sure about UK, and Germany has been a tough country to import into that opinion is subject to change. Sorry to interrupt the episode, you may have heard Ken and I talking recently about a new tool that we’re using for Amazon refunds. Now I have used other refund tools like this. However, I can tell you in the first seven days, they scrubbed it, the back end of my Amazon account going back 18 months, and found $5,000 of refunds. And the nice thing about this is it’s my money, Amazon made a mistake and they are just auditing my account. The other thing I really like about this tool is there is no monthly fee, they only charge commission if they are successful in getting you your money. Go to get t.com GE T ID a and enter promo code ft m for Firing the Man FTM 400. This is an awesome tool. I can’t say enough good things about it. Now back to the episode. So Ken, what about you?
Pat Lum 13:17
That’s a good one. Yeah, so
Ken 13:18
I’ve got so a couple that David did not hit on one would be an out. And these I’ll give to one is like a revenue jump in the second one is like a time take back like I got more of my time, which is happiness, and I’m able to work on a higher level stuff. So I would say whatever. We hired an operations manager to manage I think we were at, I think we were at either eight or 10 employees at the time. And so David and I were like we’re, you know, each had four or five direct reports. And we hired an operations manager who kind of took that role. And so it freed up a ton of time. And so that was not a revenue spike, but a time I got a lot of time back. And then another I would say is having mature processes. And this goes hand in hand with saying no. And so I think over time, I’ve been able to I have shiny object syndrome. I love software I love like, cool shit. And so over time, I think I’m getting better at taking all you know, because the marketers of the world, the Pats and everybody are throwing all this stuff at us. Oh the shiny, right. And so like you have to be really good at like testing some things, figuring out what actually works and then implementing that. And so like I’ve got a stack of stuff here. Anytime I go to like a conference or something, you know, you’re getting all this stuff and then whittling it down to like what actually what can you plug in and make work right away that will help your business. I think that’s something that you can develop over time. I’m still not the best at I’m getting good. And I would say like mature processes that really help spiked revenue quite a bit. It’s like hey, just do more of what’s working and create processes for it and then repeat that. So we’ve
Pat Lum 14:57
seen mature processes as opposed to like processes you’re talking about. like kind of skipped scaled out versions of an existing process like to up the volume versus like, do something different. Yeah, to
Ken 15:07
put it into more context, like, say you develop a process on a Google Doc, you know, six months ago, and then you wait six months, you go back in, and then you write it and update it and refine it to what’s working now, and then do that a couple of times. And by the time the third time you do, that’s a pretty mature process that you’ve ran through the wringer several times. And so, gotcha, that’s pretty helpful.
Pat Lum 15:28
That’s a cool concept for mature process.
David 15:32
I would also add to that mature processes is if you were to give that SOP to somebody in your company that has no previous experience, that all the questions that they have, as they’re going through it identifies the holes you have, and if they can go through it start to finish with no previous experience, then you’ve got a good process. And ultimately, that’s what you want, right? Like, employee a is out sick, employee B, we need you to fill in, here’s exactly what to do. And so we’re it’s an ever evolving process. And honestly, hiring an operations manager has been key for us to get that off the ground. So
Pat Lum 16:09
you guys like video walkthroughs for SOP isn’t my my partner. And I disagree about this, because he’s like, if we write down text, it’ll, it’s more scalable, because you can change text really quickly. And if the text is concise, somebody could run the SOP. But I’ve more been a fan of like images and video, it’s very hard to change after the fact. Here’s our take on it.
Ken 16:27
Yeah, go ahead, David.
David 16:28
My opinion is a video is better than nothing. And we have a lot of people in our company that will make a loom video or screen recording whatever you use, but if you ask them to sit down and take screenshots and write out everything, it’s just not going to get done or not get going to get done in time. And so I think loom videos are a good thing. You can also outsource this where you have a loom video, give it to somebody, then they take the screenshots and then type up the text. And so but I think a process is better than no process. Yeah, I
Ken 16:59
would just follow up that with I think a major process is like, typed out in find over time. Whereas a video, Like David said, if you have nothing, have your team, write down the 10 tasks they do and just go create a two to five minute video, they can do that an hour, and then at least your obligate was something but you can’t, I mean, you’re not gonna have a video editor like edit videos, or, you know, in the space we’re in, like, software’s are constantly changing. Amazon’s software constantly checked, you know, every time I log in, there’s a new dashboard. There’s a new thing here and so screenshots to do, because over time, they’re going to be, you know, legacy.
David 17:36
Now, what one question I want to get into, before we get into the fire round is Pat, you invited us to be a guest on your podcast, and you got a lot of great content, Pat Lum, is the handle on YouTube. And I’d encourage our audience to go check it out. But one of the things that when we were done recording, I asked Ken, Hey, did you notice anything different about Pat, and one thing that we’ve noticed, just through Zoom is that from a physical standpoint, you have changed, you have made incredible progress. Looks like you’ve put on a lot of muscle in just I know, that doesn’t just happen. And about two years ago, we had a conversation you were doing a program called 75 heart. And so can you talk about this process this transformation? And you know, what eras in your life? Have you seen the benefit, and then also kind of speak to the entrepreneurs that say, and I’ve been this person? A lot of times you say, I’m super busy building a business, I don’t have time to exercise. So give us your thoughts on this.
Pat Lum 18:37
We’ve all been there. We’ve all been that person at various points. There’s no shame in it at all. So I think okay, so So 75 Art I’ve done a few times. It’s a program by Andy for Sela, who’s actually an E commerce entrepreneur as well. He is a supplement company, I believe they have over $100 million run rate. And he’s put out just a challenge, just a general issue challenge to build discipline in folks. And so it’s five simple tasks. So it’s two workouts every day, each workout is 45 minutes, one of them has to be outdoors. One of them’s outdoors to show you that it’s okay to work out in the rain, nothing bad’s gonna happen to you kind of thing, right stick to a diet. So this could be any diet that you choose. For me personally, in the last round, I use something called the perfect health diet, which is from some Harvard researchers, you can look that up but you got to stick to the diet strictly there’s no cheat meals. So there’s no chocolate, no candy, no sugar, no fried foods, nothing like that. No alcohol, also a progress picture a day, which has the psychological effect of sort of visually tracking progress. And you have a suite before and after to on day one versus day 7510 10 pages of reading from a nonfiction book. So for me, I read business books or you know, marketing books or whatever, but you could read just anything as long as it’s nonfiction. And then there’s, there’s one more I know I’m gonna write a gallon of water a gallon of water a day. So here’s what I have for that. It was a two liter bottle. I’ll drink two of these a day. And it’s and the thing is, I still have this bottle, the stuff sticks like after it ends. Are you going to start actively dehydrating yourself based on what you’re used to. No, absolutely not like. So this stuff sticks. And just in terms of general fitness, if people are familiar with like bulk and cut cycles, this is great for a cut. So it’s great for lowering body fat percentage, while retaining the muscle that you have. And then for bulking, I’ll use just Google strong lifts five by five. Again, if you just talk about the basics, like there’s a program of focus on basic compound lifts. So deadlifts and barbell rows, presses benchpress, like, there’s just, I think there’s about probably five exercises in this thing. You do three of them in a workout. And that’s it. Right. But that gets, because they’re compounds, and they focus on large parts of the body with barbells. It’s simple as that. Right? So those are my two sort of fitness, I guess, frameworks, you know, one for that one for the bulk, and one for the cut. And yeah, probably as like, in my early 20s, I probably, you know, I was about maybe 145 250 pounds, and now I’m about 185, maybe
- Gildner, Gil (Author)
- English (Publication Language)
- 205 Pages - 03/28/2019 (Publication Date) - Baltika Press (Publisher)
David 20:56
nice to know, wow.
Ken 20:57
Yeah. So to set the stage to the listeners who’s not on our YouTube. Well, for one, go to YouTube and watch this. But for two, I’ll paint a picture the last time we were on a zoom call with Pat, after the call, David said, Hey, Ken, did you notice anything different about Pat? I said, Yeah, Pat looks like a linebacker now, and so 145 to 185. But that’s a pretty good jump, man. That’s awesome. Congrats.
David 21:21
That’s awesome. We talked about row as return on adspend, what’s been your row at return on training, in terms of energy level business, what have been some benefits that you’ve felt as you’ve stepped up your game in this department?
Pat Lum 21:36
One thing that’s taught me is that there’s always extra time in the day. Now, I don’t have kids yet, right? I want them but I don’t have them yet. You guys tell me better. But like, it seems like, you know, the day is full, it couldn’t possibly get any fuller. And then I imagine you have kids. And then you got to take care of that. And you still managed to get everything done. So it just goes to show that you know, there’s enough time in the day for everything. I think what this taught me was, you know, you can do 245 minute workouts a day and still get everything done that you need to get done in the business. And the other thing was like, it’s this, it trained me on a constant repetitive, like one unit directional, like grind mode, where it basically like, like, for me, just personally, for our business, like I’ve been posting, I sort of made a resolution to post something online every day content wise. And it started on August 1 2022. And I’ve committed myself for a year, right. So I’m going to post it online every day for a year, right YouTube shorts, tick tock, stuff like that. And I started on August 1. And because of the discipline that was instilled in me from 75, hard, it’s been relatively easy to just post every day you were and you record when you’re tired. You record when you’re sick, you record when you don’t feel like recording, you get in front of the camera, and you try to help some folks on the internet. So that pattern sort of carried over from physical discipline, that mental discipline can follow. And it’s just really easy and tangible to train physical stuff. So that’s why going from physical to mental is probably easier than psyching yourself up and trying to get mental motivation out of nowhere. The physical just helps things run like a machine would run. And ironically, you’d think it’s mechanical, but also within those confines, there is room for creativity. So you sort of create open space within the confines of some discipline. Yeah, so that’s what it’s been an aesthetically. I mean, I don’t really care. I’m more interested in like lifting heavier weights, because I just I’m like, stupid or something more. I feel like I just like if I could push, you know, 360 and then that would be cool. Like, it’s just kind of fun. There’s no rhyme or reason to that. I don’t know. I don’t know what that’s about.
David 23:26
Yeah, very nice. Very nice. Right. Well, let’s can anything else before we get in fire round?
Ken 23:31
No. I think we’re good. I think we had a well rounded chat. We talked PBC high level low level. We talked breakdancing we talk lifting. I mean, we you know fitness mental Yeah. Or a well rounded chat. So are you ready for the fire round? Pat? Do it. What is your favorite book?
Pat Lum 23:50
I have? You’ve caught me in my study. So current favorite. Okay. Is is this one’s called Working backwards to Amazon executives is the plot to two Amazon executives leave Amazon, start a consultancy and start teaching businesses about Amazon’s own internal business processes. I don’t even know how they got the blessing for this, but they must have Yeah. And so this is it’s a pretty good size as well like stuff about Amazon’s internal business processes around narratives. So one page narrative writing how they manage people their hiring process, I use this exact hiring process, because it’s so good at removing bias from hiring. And so I just love it. It’s really great. And it’s a recent publication as well. I think this is the last five years, maybe 22,021. So fresh off the presses. Honorable mentions are Good to Great, which gets cited a lot for good reason. Again, it’s an emphasis on people and team building. And I think it’s very instructive. And if you’re feeling philosophical, a little bit out to lunch, but in a good way. I haven’t finished this one. This is finite and infinite games. The theory is that there’s two types of games in this world finite, which you’re trying to win and you’re trying to end it and infinite, which the players just play in that game for its own sake. And it’s just it’s fun. And the goal of the game is just to continue playing and I Yeah, yeah, I think it’s just an interesting philosophy. Yeah, a vision of life is play and possibility. So just to balance out all the hard the hard nosed business stuff, so there’s three for you.
Ken 25:08
That’s awesome. Very cool. What are your hobbies?
Pat Lum 25:11
On the strength training piece? So I wasn’t straight training for no reason. Like, I want to strength train because I want to fight. And so in the last year, I picked up Brazilian Jujitsu, which is fantastic. So I knew I was gonna get crushed at one, you know, 140 511 50. So I had to bulk up. So I did and now I’ve been on the mat. Just yeah, just fighting some guys. So it’s all in good funds now. Yeah, it’s good activity.
Ken 25:34
Very cool. What is the one thing that you do not miss about working for the man,
Pat Lum 25:39
I have very little corporate experience. So I worked at a clothing store. And I worked at a an ice cream shop. And that’s, and everyone was really nice. The whole time spa? I don’t, you know, I guess I got really lucky where people were just really nice and kind and didn’t give me any problems. So the man for me is more just like the man that you could become if you did all the right stuff. That’s awesome. Not the title, I guess. But it’s too long, though. Firing the Man that you would have been if you were never the guy. Yeah.
Ken 26:09
All right. Last one. What do you think sets apart successful e commerce entrepreneurs from those who give up fail or never get started?
Pat Lum 26:16
Give up fail or never get started? There was a venture capitalist, I forget which one but a noted one. And he would they were like, Hey, do you think entrepreneurs should drop out of college to pursue their careers? And he’s like, You know what, I have a blanket policy, where I just any entrepreneur that asked me if they should drop out, I say don’t do it. He said this accomplishes two things. Like every entrepreneur that is destined to drop out and has the drive to drop out will drop out anyway, regardless of what I say. And the ones that were not meant to will will stay in school, and that’s fine. And they were meant to be in school because they don’t, you know, so I think part of it is about just self determining what you really want to do. And there’s no you know, there’s no shame in never getting started, like maybe you actually really don’t want to get started in this. And that’s okay, right? Because if what you’re doing is working and you like it, then you just do that. Right. But so yeah, so that’s about getting started, like about getting started, if you are gonna get started you, you should. And if you’re not, then some part of you does not actually want to get started in the first place. I think that’s where I’m going with that. And for those starting on the E commerce track, don’t spend a lot on your first product, do some market research and just have it ultimately just have a good product that people love because the rest is just like bells and whistles. So
Ken 27:25
awesome. Very cool. David, over to you.
David 27:28
Pat, want to thank you for being a second time guest on the Firing the Man podcast. This has been a lot of fun and conversation, Joy. If people are interested in getting in touch with asteroid X and considering outsourcing their PPC agency, what would be the best way?
- Ryan, Robert J. (Author)
- English (Publication Language)
- 137 Pages - 11/02/2019 (Publication Date) - Independently published (Publisher)
Pat Lum 27:43
Sure, just head over to this asteroid x.com. So as T R O ID X letter x.com. Or just check us out on YouTube. We also David cannon I also had another chat. If you search that on YouTube, it’ll pop right up. We just have a good time. Like it’s just fun.
David 27:58
Definitely. Well, thank you so much, Pat. We really appreciate it and looking forward to staying in touch. Thanks. And see you. Thank you everyone for tuning into today’s Firing the Man podcast. If you liked this episode, head on over to firingtheman.com and check out our resource library for exclusive Firing the Man discounts on popular ecommerce subscription services that is firingtheman.com backslash resource. You can also find a comprehensive library of over 50 books that Ken and I have read in the last few years that have made a meaningful impact on our business, or that head on over to www.firingtheman.com/library Lastly, check us out on social media at Firing the Man in on YouTube at Firing the Man for exclusive content. This is David Schomer and Ken Wilson. We’re out
before you go fun fact for all you Amazon sellers out there when you start selling in international marketplaces, all of your reviews come with you. At the beginning of this year, Ken and I sat down and talk of ways that we could double our businesses in size and landed on international expansion as our number one initiative this year. We partnered up with Kevin Sanderson from maximizing ecommerce and he has made the process an absolute breeze walking us step by step through the process. If you want to grow your revenue and reach new customers head on over to https://maximizingecommerce.com/fire and connect with Kevin Sanderson today. Now back to the show.