Today, we continue our talk with Travis Chambers, a Forbes 30 Under 30 lister and founder of Chamber.Media. Travis will talk about advertising and how powerful it is in growing ecommerce businesses. Drawing from his own experience, he will share some practical steps to understand Facebook ads better and leverage their power to improve ROI.
Listen now and learn how to convert prospects into buyers with Facebook ads!
[00:01 – 06:21] Opening Segment
- We continue our talk with Travis Chambers of Chamber Media!
- Why Travis is the Henry Ford of video production
[06:22 – 14:51] The Answer to Latest Privacy Updates
- One of the most cost-effective infrastructure in advertising
- The latest privacy updates have effects on ecommerce
- Travis shares his insights
- Why significant resources are keys to start a business today
[14:52 – 24:39] 7 Facebook Ads that Convert
- The ad types that can help you make more money
- Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
- Promo code: FTM400
- Triple your revenue with these tips from Travis
- What’s sustainable and what’s not?
- What can we learn from Warren Buffet?
[24:40 – 30:09] Why Contact Chamber Media Now
- Travis talks about the services of Chamber Media
- How Travis can say that a brand is “weak”
- The secrets to build a powerhouse in the advertising industry
[30:10 – 33:22] Closing Segment
- Know more about Travis in the FIre Round
- Connect with Travis!
- Links below
- Final words
“The only businesses that I’ve seen that become really institutional, big brands…it’s because they figured out advertising.” – Travis Chambers
“The most successful founders are never inventors; they are always marketers, in my opinion.” – Travis Chambers
Get in touch with Travis by emailing firstname.lastname@example.org or following him on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Check out Chamber Media to create social video ads that drive full-funnel sales and brand growth.
Send us a voice message and let us know how we can help you fire the man!
Email us –> email@example.com
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Travis Chambers 0:46
So you just have this bad setup. And so they take this creative that’s not optimized to drive real results in any measurable way. And then it gets sent over to a media agency, like a stark on media vest with a bunch of other corporate lifers who don’t really care. So it’s just like you have all these parts that are working together for no purpose. And all they really care about is winning awards at the end of the day. It’s just a big scam, in my opinion. And as long as I get a two or three to one return on my marketing, then I’m going to be rich. Well, there was a two or three year window where that was true. Well, that window is closed. And it’s very difficult to get SEO rankings, it’s very difficult to get a top ranking on Amazon, it’s extremely difficult to get a viral video on Facebook or YouTube, it’s very difficult to get press because press is kind of, journalism kind of died. So you don’t get a lot of that either. But what we found is they fit into seven categories, which was really interesting. And the categories that we settled on, and I might miss a few of them here. Sometimes I forget. One was spokesperson anchor. Two was product demo. Three was social proof. Four was a dynamic ad. Five was a unboxing. Six was a case study. And seven was a lifestyle. Those are the seven categories that we identified. My favorites happened to just be ads, because they sell while you’re asleep at night. And some people try to build brands on organic social media followings. They have viral TikToks, they have a YouTube channel. That’s a great way if you don’t have any money to get from nowhere to somewhere. But it’s never the way to get from somewhere to five 10 million a year, predictably and reliably. And even if you do get to five to 10 million a year based on that, it’s going to collapse at some point. And for that some things for that organic is SEO rankings, organic SEO rankings. Sometimes its influencer, you had some organic influencers, or maybe you had some press features that you had. But that’s what we’ve seen over and over again. Those things aren’t sustainable. You have got to be running Amazon ads, Facebook ads, YouTube ads, Google search ads, Pinterest, tiktok ads, TV ads, Hulu ads, I don’t care. But the only businesses I’ve seen that become real institutional, big brands. It’s because they figure out advertising.
Welcome, everyone, to the firing the man podcast, a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you were capable of more then join us, this show will help you build a business and grow your passive income streams in just a few short hours per day. And now your hosts, serial entrepreneurs, David Schomer and Ken Wilson.
Yeah, it’s a really interesting piece of entrepreneurship. And you’re right, the number of colleagues that Ken and I have that are absolutely nuts that sleep four hours a night are always chasing the next shiny object. I mean, I would put both Ken and I in that category where we’re always looking for the next thing. And so it is just that’s an interesting perspective and I think you’re absolutely right. So let’s pivot a little bit and get into advertising. So you say you’re the Henry Ford of video production, which is quite a claim. Let’s let’s dive into that.
Travis Chambers 4:29
Yeah, so Henry Ford had this issue where cars were really expensive to create, and most people just couldn’t afford one. But at that time, if you had a car, you were kind of the king, you could get to places quickly. Your capacity for economic development progression was multiplied. So he built this supply chain. And he figured out ways to verticalized I mean, he was kind of a pioneer of verticalization of taking multiple technologies, putting them in the same thing, not necessarily having to use tons of different contractors in different parts, but bring it all in house. I mean, Elon Musk is like the Henry Ford 2.0 with what he’s done with Tesla. Tesla’s now insuring their own cars. That’s verticalization. Right. So, I thought I was at these creative agencies, where they were making these TV commercials. And they’re paying like three 400 grand, just in creative fees alone. Once you you take a whole year contract, like Applebee’s would spend four or $5 million a year, and they would get like six or 7 30 second TV spots. But that didn’t include the production costs, production costs were another million $2 million. And then they would take this creative, that was written by creatives who only care about winning awards, to further their career, which is further propagated by the in house manager of the brand, who also only cares about winning awards, to further their career. So no one really cares about the KPIs or the outcome of the business, because it’s a corporate lifer working with a corporate lifer, it’s a bad combination. And that these bigger brands, the founders, usually not involved, and you’ve got shareholders that are just corporate lifers that don’t, they’re also so you just have this bad setup. And so they take this creative, that’s not optimized to drive real results in any measurable way. And then it gets sent over to a media agency, like a Starcom MediaVest with a bunch of other corporate lifers who don’t really care. So it’s just like, you have all these parts that are working together for no purpose. And all they really care about is winning awards, at the end of the day. It’s just a big scam, in my opinion. And so I thought, well, I’m going to bring all this under one roof. And creative is going to talk to production and production is going to talk to media buying, and we’re going to have all those people under the same roof. And we started to create like a conveyor belt in a system where the concept that we’re making is completely based on how it’s going to be ran as an ad. And now we have accountability to how it performs, and extreme accountability. And we were able to do that, because technological advancements with Facebook and YouTube platforms is you can actually track sales, with Google search as well, and Amazon, things like that. So now you can actually really track the results far beyond what you could do with TV, which was mostly based on Nielsen surveys and stuff, asking people if they saw an ad, or just looking at overall sales. And that just grew and grew. And we’re to the point now, we’re the most cost effective, I guess, infrastructure for making scripts, creative production in ad money, and having it all gelled together. And that’s why we’ve just exploded in the last two years is the market has finally caught up to what we’re building. And people now all want to buy a Model T Ford because of the advantage it gives them. And so that’s why I say we’ve kind of created the Henry Ford line video production, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I like that. And, Travis, I worked in the corporate environment for two decades, I totally get it like, you’re saying someone’s trapped in a corporate bubble. They’re worrying about awards or their career versus like serving. And it sounds like you’ve brought everything under one umbrella to kind of serve. So I really like that. One thing that’s a recent change this year was I guess, the tracking, which you kind of alluded to a little bit earlier. So what Apple’s iPhone, they’ve updated as iOS 15, which has kind of smashed the some of the tracking a little bit in the media buying and conversion. How have your team kind of went around that? Or what do you guys what’s a workaround for that tracking conversions with the whole apple Facebook fight?
Travis Chambers 8:55
So in the last six, seven years, as things have become trackable, people become track obsessed, we call it, get your head out of your ROAS. So ROAS stands for return on ads. Get your head out of your ROAS so people have tried to build these new companies that have no fundamental understanding of branding. And they have no fundamental understanding of how hard and how long it takes to grow a real brand in this country. Because until 10 years ago, you just couldn’t do it. You had to have tons of money. You had to get into retail big box retailers and you had to spend like crazy on marketing and then just hope that it translated into sales. And then you had some people who got some organic search rankings on Google and were able to grow some companies and then all of a sudden everyone thought I can just go direct to consumer and as long as I get a two or three to one return on my marketing then I’m going to be rich. Well, there was a two or three year window that was that was true. Well that window is closed. And it’s very difficult to get SEO rankings. It’s very difficult to get a top ranking on Amazon, it’s extremely difficult to get a viral video on Facebook or YouTube, it’s very difficult to get press because press is kind of, journalism kind of died. So you don’t get a lot of that either. And so that’s where iOS, the iOS privacy update has come in and really cleaned house, for people that don’t know how to do branding. So we’ve always focused on, you have to build brand while you’re selling, you can’t only do brand, and you can’t only do direct response, you have to do both. And that’s always been our focus. And our belief is merging those two worlds, the late night infomercial with the Superbowl commercial. And so we have fared really well through the iOS update. But it’s because we’re very creative focused. So we’ve built momentum in these kinds of groundswells through really great videos. So instead of someone just seeing a, an image ad, that’s not that compelling, they have already watched like three or four minutes of videos from a brand. So that means they’re deep into the consideration period. And so when iOS hit, we were able to take that approach of a big umbrella of brand awareness. And then our videos do such a good job of weeding people out who are never going to be customers that we never have to pay for those people. I mean, we’re paying like three or four cents for their view, but we’re not paying for $2 for their click. The old way is just get as many people your website as possible, but you spend $2 a click when it used to be 50 cents, you’re gonna run out of money. So creative has been the answer to the privacy update. Good creative. And we’ve only seen 4% of our accounts have lower performance from iOS privacy update. And I have heard of other agencies and other brands that have just completely been wiped off the map by the privacy update.
That’s a really interesting point about, we’ve heard some horror stories of it just absolutely crippling companies. And I think you do make a good point about the branding piece of it that’s often overlooked by likely a lot of MBAs whose brain is organized into rows and columns, not everything fits into an excel sheet, so.
Travis Chambers 12:27
I think the days, I think the days of like starting an ecom brand with like 20 grand is over. That periods gone.
Can we dive into this? Why would you say? Can you expand on that?
Travis Chambers 12:36
Yeah, I mean, so Dollar Shave Club spent 10 to $1000 to make the Dollar Shave Club YouTube ad. And they probably spent 50 60 grand on their supply chain and their warehouse and whatever else, maybe more than that. But they were able to run these ads, for nothing. I mean, YouTube ads were so cheap back then. And so the adoption of YouTube in the viewership was way far beyond the number of advertisers that were there. So there was a real estate grab in the wild west that happened in ecommerce over the last 15 years and Google search was really kind of the start the.com bubble was really the start. Well, the real estate rush is over, like Oklahoma has been claimed, Texas has been claimed, the West has been won. And so you can’t just drop ship your way into a brand anymore. You can’t just spend five or 10 grand on Facebook ads and get it to scale. It’s too competitive, it’s too expensive. So we’re actually seeing like a reversion back into what it took to start a company in this country 15 years ago, you have to have significant resources, you’ve got to have 20 30 grand to spend just on your social ads, just to get them to start working. Because the algorithms need 30 conversions before they can even start optimizing to what you’re doing. I mean, even with our own ads chamber media ads, we used to be all in like look alikes, and really crazy like anonymous third party targeting. Now we just have blanket targeting. It’s we’re just targeting people that like Gary Vaynerchuk and peloton, Nike and golf and things like that. And it’s working. But, you can’t spend 10 grand on people that like Nike, and get results. You can’t do it. You got to be spending, we’re spending 100 120 grand a month. So that’s my message to people who think that I can have a good idea and start a DVC e commerce brand. Don’t do it unless you’ve got 100 grand because you’re going to get crushed. And it just doesn’t work like it used to. You can’t just throw up an Amazon link anymore and rank number one on Amazon. It’s not gonna happen.
Very good. Let’s, so talking about Facebook ads. What are some of the best converting ads as we sit here talking in 2021?
Travis Chambers 15:00
So we’ve got seven different types of ads that we have found that work. So it was really bothering me that, and it always has bothered me that creatives and that myself that we would just come up with these ideas for ads, because we thought they were good ideas based on our experience, but no one really knew. And it drove me nuts when we were pitching like a vitamin water, or a Kraft mac and cheese, and it was really just their opinion versus our opinion. But no one’s opinion really had any weight to what creative should be, there was no quantitative approach to creative. And that bothered me. So what we did is we looked at all the adspend, that we had managed, about 100 million. And we took all that creative, and we put it into a database. And then what we did is we went and looked at the top 1% of the top 2000 Shopify stores ads, we put them all in the database, we hired some machine learning engineers, and some virtual assistants. And they codified this whole database, just like you would if you were developing a taxonomy for the canine kingdom, or the kingdom of mushrooms or fungi, right? Here’s fungi. Here’s like, eight different families of fungi. And then here’s 100 species each of all these things. And then here are all the regions. So we did this taxonomy exercise with this database. And that was, we coded and identified 100 different types of ads. And obviously, there’s 1000s of different types. But what we found is they fit into seven categories, which was really interesting. And the categories that we settled on, and I might miss a few of them here, sometimes I forget, one was spokesperson anchor. Two was product demo. Three was social proof, four was a dynamic ad. Five was a unboxing. Six was a case study. And seven was a lifestyle ad. Those are the seven categories that we identified. And so what we did is we basically built this approach called The Seven foundational ads, where if you make all seven of these types of ads, and then you make variations within those, based on the promise you’re getting back, you have a really high likelihood. And when we started using this process, our success rate per piece of creative went from 50% to 80%. So what that means is we’ve now cut down on testing in our ad spend, we’ve cut on ad waste. And now we’ve also cut down our creative and production waste, as well. And this database that we made, we called the brain. And we kind of took it one step further is we can’t really sell all this data because of Facebook terms and stuff. But what we’ve done is we’ve built a front end UX called unicorn ads, unicorn copy.ai. And it’s a real AI tool that we’ve built on GPT three, which is the open source AI platform. And you can actually access all the information to this database through copywriting. So you can go in there, plug in your landing page in this tool, this unicorn copy.ai tool will actually write ads for you, which is pretty cool. And it will give you all sorts of insights, you can look up by your industry or your keyword if you want to look up sneakers or you want to look up like women’s apparel, or coffee or whatever you want. It also gives you best practices. And it will tell you what kind of ads you should make. So you may even be able to bypass making those seven ads, you maybe only want to make four of these, the ones that performed best in your industry. So that’s kind of the overall thing that we found with this ad study.
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That’s really cool. Yeah, so anybody listening we’ll have that in the show notes, for sure. That tool we can go and plug in your, whatever space you’re in, and just get the quick tips of how to get rid of all the trash and get right to it. So thanks for sharing that, Travis. One more quick question before we pivot into more of chamber media. So what strategies can people use to triple the revenue of a multi million dollar company?
Travis Chambers 20:21
So, I’ve always said that like sales solves all problems. And what I have seen is that most businesses have a problem with getting sales acquisition channels. If you can get two or three reliable, predictable acquisition channels, then you will build a multi million dollar brand. It’s just a matter of I mean, you even look at chamber media, my own business, I was getting clients for about five years through LinkedIn posts, press features, chasing the, humping people’s legs at conferences, speaking at conferences, man it was just like anything we could do. And once we started running ads for ourselves, and we released lower priced options, it just exploded. It just exploded took a life on of its own, we were able to afford great managers, business managers, talent, better writers, better producers, better everything. And now we’re just kind of like on this trajectory, all on our own, just out into this blue ocean here. So that’s the way to do it. And there’s so many different ways to develop reliable acquisitions. My favorites happened to just be ads, because they sell while you’re asleep at night. And some people try to build brands on organic social media followings. They have viral tiktoks, they have a YouTube channel. That’s a great way if you don’t have any money to get from nowhere to somewhere. But it’s never the way to get from somewhere to five 10 million a year, predictably and reliably. And even if you do get to five to 10 million a year based on that, it’s gonna collapse at some point. And for that something’s for that organic is SEO rankings, organic SEO rankings. Sometimes it’s influencer, you had some organic influencers, or maybe you had some press features that you had. But that’s what we’ve seen over and over again. Those things aren’t sustainable. You have got to be running Amazon ads, Facebook ads, YouTube ads, Google search ads, Pinterest, TikTok ads, TV ads, Hulu ads, I don’t care. But the only businesses I’ve seen that become real institutional, big brands it’s because they figure out advertising. And people just they think they can build businesses off of referrals, or word of mouth or the product is just good enough to do it on its own. And unless you want to go, trudge in the MLM slime of the world, you’ve got to figure out advertising. I mean, look at GEICO, right? GEICO is one of the single handed reasons in my opinion that Warren Buffett’s one of the richest men in the world. I don’t want to discredit him, but I don’t think Warren Buffett’s the smartest guy on the planet, to be honest, I think put him in Musk in a room and Musk will just walk circles around the guy. But he just figured out these real basic things for Geico, you just get these TV ads and infomercials. And he got the gecko campaign. And he got the marten agency, and he just got this message that worked. And you guys know what the message is, right?
Travis Chambers 23:38
What is it? 25 seconds could save you 25% of your
25% or more on your car insurance. Yeah, by switching to Geico. There we go.
Travis Chambers 23:47
They’ve had more, but that’s it. Warren Buffett and his board, they just literally spend like $4 billion a year telling people, just beating them over the head with a bat less than 25% or more 25% or more. And that’s why, and RC Willey right is a big part of his thing, too. And that’s all based on financing, right? It’s not even about selling furniture. But that’s what you have to figure out is you’ve got to figure out the advertising side of your business. And that’s why the most successful founders are never inventors. They’re always marketers. In my opinion. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen brands call us and they’ve got some genius invention, some amazing product. But they suck at marketing. And they’re not even good enough at marketing to know who to hire that’s good at marketing. Right? So I’ve seen these founders, other brilliant marketers, and they have the stupidest products you’ve ever seen. But they just dominate because they know how to handle that.
Yeah, that’s awesome.
Yeah, let’s jump into chamber media. So let’s talk about like the ideal client, who does chamber media serve and in what size a company would be a good fit for chamber media?
Travis Chambers 25:01
So our sweet spot is brands that are doing like 500 grand in revenue to like 20 million. That’s usually the place where they have started doing advertising, they found maybe one acquisition channel, and they’re scaling and they’ve got a good product. But they maybe don’t have like a big in house team yet, they haven’t maybe gotten all the pieces figured out yet, that is a really good time to get in touch with us. That’s where we take brands from the 500 Grand to the 5 million, or the 5 million to the 20, or in Mr. Cools case, 10 to 200 million, they’re going to do over 200 million this year. And we’re running 80% of their marketing spend for three years now. So that’s the sweet, we’ve got some brands that come that are smaller than that, that we have some success with, but they definitely need to have some certain level of things worked out. And if they don’t have a few things worked out, they’d better have some kind of funding to take the learning curve, and to take some losses to figure things out.
Okay, so a lot of our listeners are ecommerce sellers, and specifically Amazon sellers. And so let’s say someone comes to you with, say they’re doing about a million dollars in revenue on Amazon. And largely sales are driven by PPC. And they know that they have a blind spot in marketing, what are going to be some areas that you guys generally start with to, what’s the marketing starter pack? Or is it unique to each company?
Travis Chambers 26:32
Yeah, so that means to me is they’ve got a very weak brand. It’s very difficult to do branding on Amazon. It’s just a sales page. It’s very difficult to build a brand just on website like people don’t like to read. And then PPC, right, you’re ripe for the picking anytime someone else just wants to bid more, you can lose your spot at any moment. And so, if you’re running on amazon store and you’re driven by PPC, you’re kind of living on a yacht with a hole on it. So what you really need to do is you just need to get two or three other acquisition channels. And those could be influencer marketing. Probably most likely through Pinterest and Tik Tok, that’s like the cheapest way to get influencer reach. YouTube influencers are pretty overpriced now. You could get into retail, or online retail, we’ve seen some brands that have crushed it, we run ads, and they crush it in retail. And yeah, there’s all sorts of different ways. So what we would do is we’d come in, and we’d say, Alright, we’re gonna make whether you’re on our MVP program where we make four different ads a month, or whether you’re in our mini anchor program, where we’re going to make a one minute video with a bunch of retargeting ads, or whether you’re an anchor program where we make a really big production with seven, six, sorry, six videos underneath it, we’re going to make the creative that we think is going to perform the best, we’re going to do an audit with the brain. So we’re going to pull in everything that you’ve done in the past, we’re also going to pull in all the historical data from your industry to do some predictive modeling of what specific ads work in your specific industry. And then we get all that creative together, and then we start running ads. And then at that point, we’re just looking at what are the winning messages, what are the losing, what are the losers, we cut those out, we double down on the winning messages. And we make variations of those ads on a continual ongoing basis. And you have this blend of bigger production videos. And this blend of smaller retargeting videos. And what’s really interesting is we’ve seen that the production value of an ad correlates with the longevity of the ad. So a larger production ad might not convert better than a small little two second video, but it will last longer. So what happens is, you want to have these big anchor videos that run and that on average, they last 14 months. The big anchor videos, the mini anchors, on average lasts about six months. And then the smaller 5 10 15 second retargeting videos and images, they usually last about two and a half months. And this is on an aggressive spend. This is someone that spending over 40 50 grand a month, something like that. And so that’s what you want to have is you just want to have this video layering strategy, where you’ve got this big brand thing that you’re doing maybe every quarter, something new, something big, grabs people’s attention, and that they’ll watch multiple times and that they’ll remember and then you’ve got the smaller stuff that’s a little more promotional, maybe a little more aggressive. And then you’ve got the stuff underneath it like discounts and free shipping and limited time only and supplies running out whatever those things are. And you have this layered thing. And what happens is it starts to compound these creative assets they start to compound, you start to be able to double down on the messages that are working, tell stories in different ways. And that’s how you build a powerhouse on the advertising side. And that’s what we’ve been able to do for dozens of brands now.
Yeah, that’s awesome. Well cool. Travis, anything else you want to cover before we get into the fire round?
Travis Chambers 30:16
Nah, man, I’m ready. Let’s do it.
Alright, let’s do it. What’s your favorite book?
Travis Chambers 30:20
Okay, Man’s Search for Meaning. Viktor Frankl.
Awesome. What are your hobbies?
Travis Chambers 30:26
Mountain biking, running, cycling, cars.
Very cool. What is one thing that you do not miss about working for the man?
Travis Chambers 30:37
Feeling like my potential is limited on a daily basis.
Okay, what do you think sets apart successful ecommerce entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail or never get started?
Travis Chambers 30:49
Grit. Grit is the secret ingredient to everything. If you have grit and enough self belief, and you have a below average IQ, you can pretty much do anything. And by anything I mean, like 80% of things.
Awesome. Very cool. David, you want to close out the show?
Yeah, Travis, how can people get a hold of you?
Travis Chambers 31:15
I’m really active on LinkedIn. So always could follow there. I’m also, I’m hard to get ahold of on LinkedIn because of the connection thing. But I’m really easy to get ahold of on Instagram, which is @Travis_Chambers.
Okay, great. And we will post links to all that in the show notes. But really appreciate your time. This was awesome podcast and look forward to staying in touch.
Travis Chambers 31:40
Thanks, guys. Amazing.
All right. Thanks, Travis.
Yep, thanks Travis.
Thank you everyone for tuning in to today’s firing the man podcast. If you liked this episode, head on over to www.firingtheman.com. And check out our resource library for exclusive firing the man discounts on popular e commerce subscription services that is www.firingtheman.com\resource. You can also find a comprehensive library of over 50 books that Ken and I have read in the last few years that have made a meaningful impact on our business, for that head on over to www.firingtheman.com/library. Lastly, check us out on social media at firing the man, and on YouTube at firing the man for exclusive content. This is David Schomer
and Ken Wilson, we’re out.
Before you go fun fact for all you Amazon sellers out there. When you start selling an international marketplaces, all of your reviews come with you. At the beginning of this year, Ken and I sat down and talked of ways that we could double our businesses in size and landed on international expansion as our number one initiative this year. We partnered up with Kevin Sanderson from maximizing ecommerce and he has made the process an absolute breeze walking us step by step through the process. If you want to grow your revenue and reach new customers head on over to www.maximizingecommerce.com/fire and connect with Kevin Sanderson today. Now back to the show.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai