We Got Served! And Sued….Learn How We Avoided Trial

David 0:00
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Ken 0:46
You know, it was just been negative to the business because we would have wasted all of that time and energy and effort preparing paperwork and evidence taking time off going to trial. And it was a suit it was a big distraction at the time to our business, it was taking our time away from it.

David 1:02
As much as I don’t want this to ever happen again. I would say if we achieve some of our long term goals, we will probably get sued again, I think it’s just part of doing business. And you know what next time, we’re going to be a lot more prepared for it. So

Intro 1:17
welcome, everyone to the firing the men podcast a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you were capable of more than join us, this show will help you build a business and grow your passive income streams in just a few short hours per day. And now your host serial entrepreneurs David Schomer and Ken Wilson.

David 1:41
Welcome everyone to the firing demand podcast on today’s episode, we dive deep into one of the worst business experiences Ken and I have had to date. It started with a service provider that we had worked with for over two years saying, Hey, guys, I have a new service that you should try out. And then it ended with a knock on both of our doors, a manila envelope and someone’s saying you’ve been served. That’s right, we got sued. We’re going to dive deep into this experience and share with you our lessons learned. Ken, what’s going on man?

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Ken 2:11
David, excited to be on the podcast today. Everybody is watching on YouTube on remote today, not in the studio. But we’re still going to deliver some you know, kick ass podcasts we’re going to share with with everyone listening our experience with getting sued. And you know how that went down. Lessons Learned. And yeah, also disclosure, this podcast is not legal advice or direction or counsel in any way. This is a David and Ken’s experience with us getting sued and how we handled it and lessons learned from that. So yeah, David,

David 2:43
he absolutely. You know, I think we a lot of times, when we jump on the microphone and record a podcast, we are recording a success story we’re sharing with the audience, something that worked. And this isn’t an instance where things did not pan out, as we expected. And I think we came out on the other side of it better, better businessman. But man in the thick of it was not a pleasant experience. So Can Can you set the scene for the listeners? What happened? How did we get sued?

Ken 3:13
Yeah, absolutely. And just to kind of piggyback on what you said, David, like that was a this was a very this happened just kind of setting the stage. This happened kind of like q4, so it’s already a stressful time, we’ve got a lot going on with businesses in the here. So you know, all sudden, we’re getting sued. And so it was very emotionally draining. It was taxing on the business. And it was not a good situation. So kind of setting the stage. Like what David mentioned a little bit in the introduction, we had a service provider that we had relationship with, we were working with them for probably over two years. And you know, they were providing great service. This was their main core service. Like I said, we use them for a long time. We trusted them, we use them for multiple businesses, and everything was going great. And then, you know, we’ve even met this person in Vegas and had a drink. Right, right, like, high fiving. You know, hey, everything’s great. You doing awesome. And then service provider, you know, and also we’re not going to disclose who the service provider was protect his business and his livelihood. This is we’re just sharing our experience. And so you know, service providers, like, Hey, I’ve got this new service. And it’s warehousing. We’re a this was right around the thick of the time when Amazon came out with their inventory restriction. And so we’re limiting the amount of stuff you can send in. So we’re like, okay, you know, we have another small warehouse, but we have several large shipments getting ready for q4, we’re like, we’re we’re gonna go with this. And so we’re like, Well, it’s kind of a good fit. Right now, this service provider is offering a new service. It’s kind of what we need. And he’s like, yeah, by the way, you guys are kind of like our first beta clients. Is that okay? We’re like, Yeah, that’s fine, because we had a positive experience with them in the past on their other services that they provided. And so this kind of like, sets the stage of where we we initiate an agreement, we kind of go over it and we get on boarded. And then from there, it everything went south, David all kinds of things. Get back over to you for that fart.

David 5:01
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, it was a miserable experience. So in the midst of these inventory restrictions, we had shipments getting lost, we had shipments that just never left the warehouse. And then on the invoice side of things, we were getting double billed, we were getting billed for services that we did not ask for. And once our inventory was in this warehouse, we noticed that prices on certain things, certain tasks, would increase up to about 500%. And we kind of felt like we are hostage, right? Like we’re in the business of selling inventory. And our inventory is in this particular location. And so, you know, I think early on, there was some back and forth on some of the double billing and the issues with payments. And, but it was just an all around negative experience. And so, you know, when it came time to settle up, I spent an incredible amount of time going through every single shipment we had sent to them. And then every single bill that we had received, as well as storage, so they were storing inventory for us. And

Ken 6:14
we So David, how many hours did you spend on that? Just the audience kind of?

David 6:19
Yeah, I would say, on this first part, probably 30 to 40 hours. In total, I probably have somewhere between 150 and 200 hours wrapped up in this entire process. And, you know, those are all hours that I was not spending on the business on growing revenue and net income. And so but it’s okay. I mean, it’s in the past. And so anyway, we kind of got to the end, q4, we were not happy with how things had gone, I paid all the bills that I thought were legitimate. And then I left the balance. And this consisted of, you know, duplicate invoices and all kinds of stuff. And so and then things just kind of sat vacant for a couple months. And definitely there’s a little bit more back and forth. And ultimately, this is what led to the lawsuit. There was a this particular service provider had a large receivable balance on their books, whether that was legitimate or not is to be discussed later in the episode. And so, you know, we so anyway, that that was what led to the lawsuit. So can you can Did I miss anything in between? Kind of like the issues and q4 Anything else we want to like, as we set the table?

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Ken 7:33
Yeah, no, I think I think you covered everything, you know, at the highest level it was it was an unpleasant experience. We were getting overbilled overcharged from our side. And David had spent and, and a considerable amount of time trying to like unwind everything and figure out from our side, Hey, what did we ship and what’s there? What’s not, and it was just draining. And there was no, like, there was not good service coming in from the other side. We were asking questions. They were not given any answers. And it’s q4. So peak time. We’re like, where’s our shit? Like, what’s going on here? And so, yeah, kind of set the stage. I think you’ve covered everything.

David 8:07
Awesome. Awesome. So let’s go to the day that that we got served, you want to go first here? Yeah, sure.

Ken 8:13
Oh, just to also back it up a little bit. So this happened over a six to nine month period, before it came to a head before it was like shits hitting the fan. And so in during that six to nine month period, we had multiple stock outs, and multiple businesses. And so this was like very high on our list of things to resolve. And so, you know, we had inventory in this warehouse, and then wfs and FDA, we’re out of stock, we’re losing money. And so we were super pissed at this point of this is really impacting the business. And so that’s when we got to the point of, hey, we got to deal with this. Okay, so setting the stage. So I actually I knew ahead of time, because David had shared with me this story for a day before I was like, oh, man, like, something’s gonna happen. If something is not good. I’m getting served papers. And so I knew that was going to happen. And so I have a ring doorbell. And so my office is in another part of the house. And so I was just like, waiting. I was like, watching the ring doorbell and you know, getting packages all day long, whatever on look at it. And I saw I see somebody sent me afterwards a manila envelope. And I’m like, I’m not answering the door at all, and then answer the door DNS or door. And then I, what I what I didn’t, what I failed to do was I failed to share this with my family. And so someone in my family goes to the door, opens it up. And I’m like, well, they’re not going to be able to give this person the paperwork, snap. And what they did was they said, Do you know this person? And my family member was like, Yeah, I do. It’s so and so and they’re, like, get in there like, give this to them. And so they had served it through someone else which I thought was like really weird in this person then felt really bad like, oh crap, like, should I have done this or should I have not and so it was just a very stressful situation and something that I don’t want to happen again, like, right, but it wasn’t my family man. position that we had a, you know, a crappy experience in a business and then they’re kind of somehow involved in that. And so it was an unpleasant experience something that I don’t like personally something that I don’t want to happen again. But it is part of the space we’re in. And so that was my thing. And then the kicker was, the initial set of paperwork wasn’t even legal. It wasn’t even valid because it’s other attorney didn’t even I didn’t know what was it. They didn’t pay, like the court fee or something. And so the paperwork is invalid.

David 10:28
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, I remember that. But we didn’t find that out until much, much later. So anyway, I’ll share with you my experience on getting served. So unlike you, my office is right next to my front door. And so when someone knocks on the door, I can go peek out my blinds and usually see like exactly who it is. Like when I pick up my blinds, we’re literally standing like four feet apart. And so I got it, the doorbell rang. And if you sell on Amazon, and you get returns to your house, you know that you UPS shipments literally every day. And so when the doorbell rang, I thought, well, it’s just the UPS guy, I’m not going to bother. And then the doorbell kept ringing. And I’m like, oh, no, this is it. So I went and peeked out the window. And to this day, I don’t know if we made eye contact, but I think she heard something and looked over my way. And I you know, I ducked and got out of the way and was hiding cover. Yeah, as I’m a grown ass man hiding from this person trying to serve me. And so I just, I didn’t know what to do. But I decided, well, I’m not going to answer the door, and we’ll just see what happens. Well, that person set my driveway for an hour. And that was, I mean, they were they must get paid when they serve. I mean, they, or this is one dedicated civil servant, sat there for an hour in the driveway. Now we’re in the driveway. So my wife, my wife calls me and is like, Hey, I’m picking up the kids from school, I’m on my way home. And I’m like, Oh, now she’s, we’re gonna get busted. And so I had to decide, well, I have my wife and kids join this operation hide or just face the music. And I face the music. She pulled up the driveway, I just made a beeline out to the car, I got served and went in and put the papers on my desk and dealt with it the next day. So yeah, that was honestly day I’ll never forget. But you know, it’s just all part of the experience.

Ken 12:29
Yeah, yeah. So those are kind of like, impactful moments that we have, and where we kind of think back on and pull experiences from but I Yeah, chalk it up to do it, you know, doing business in this space, I think it’s a matter of how long you’re in this space. And the odds are, something’s going to happen like that. And so, you know, kind of moving on, so we both get served papers, you guys serve first, serve second, and we’re moving on. So, you know, we’re both like, kind of not freaking out, but both emotional, like, you know, you know, we’re gonna crush this person, like what’s happened, you know, like, and we’re like, our wheels are spinning, you know, you’re pulling up all this, you know, evidence and paperwork. And, you know, and so, I’m like, I’m off to the races. You know, I’ve got some family members and friends that are attorneys, I’m reaching out to them, Hey, can you take a peek at this? Is this legitimate? Is this not get some, you know, get some advice, like, Hey, this is these are legitimate papers, that you need to like, respond and do something here or, you know, you’re at risk. And so called around, I spent the next couple of days, you know, we both research I called around, I talked to about four or five different attorneys in this, you know, corporate litigation in this space. And I think the cheapest, the cheapest, any of them would like more than a text message or a 32nd phone call. They wanted 10,000 cash for retainer. And then this was just like, just to, like, look at the paperwork and see what what’s going on that that announced like, this is like insane. And a couple of them, you know, one, a friend of mine family member was like, hey, this, like, if you take this to trial with what you’re showing me here, like you’re probably looking at about 50 grand, and, you know, the entire, like, disputed amount was not even that and I’m like this is insane. You know, like, but again, we’re going through this emotional process, we’re pissed at the service provider. They provided, you know, crappy service, like, we have mountains of evidence. And so you know, David that that I think at that point you and I felt like yeah, we’re just going to take this and we’re going to crush him. You know, and so I think we sat on it for two or three days, we had like, I don’t know 1015 days to respond or something like that. And so we sat on a fear for a few days. And then you know, something like, very impactful happened. I think it was on that Monday. I think we slept on it over the weekend. We kind of cleared our mind and down on Monday we you know, you and I got on the call and you know, you’re we need to like think about the best best decision for the business and not Emotions, because we were coming out from emotions were pissed off, we wanted to, like, sink our teeth in, and we wanted to, like do some damage. But when we like paused and looked at the numbers, and was like, Hey, this is what we’re up against this amount of money, there’s not there’s very little return on our ends, if we went into a trial and one very little return, we were, I don’t even know if we would have broke even. And nothing would have, it would have just been negative to the business because we would have wasted all of that time and energy and effort preparing paperwork and evidence, taking time off going to trial. And it was a suit, it was a big distraction at the time to our business, it was taking our time away from it. And so when you had mentioned like, we need to look at this from a business case of like, what’s best for the business? I think that’s when really the tide turned for us. And we kind of pivoted into a better path. Can you speak to that a

David 15:51
little bit? David? Yeah, absolutely. You know, the one thing that bothered me about pursuing counsel in hiring an attorney was it was kind of an unknown amount. So we knew what the disputed amount was, that was a fixed amount, but you start with a $10,000 retainer, and then fees go up from there. And I in my previous line of work, did a fair amount of litigation support. And when I would look at those attorney bills, I would say between 25 to 50% of their time, was spent getting them up to speed, just kind of getting them the information in getting it in a way that they can understand it and form an argument around it. And my thought was, there is no one that knows this information better than me. Like I’ve already spent, you know, at this point, I’m probably, oh, 80 or 100 hours into this unwinding invoices, finding all the emails, like I was in it. And I did not want to spend time getting somebody else up to speed to kind of explain what I already knew. And so we made the decision to self represent, which probably, some people would advise against this. Again, this isn’t legal advice. This is just what we did. And so, you know, we decided to self represent a couple, couple things that really helped out here, got on the phone and called the courthouse and said, Hey, I think we want to file an extension. How do we do that. And the key was finding a really helpful person on the other end of the phone, not calling around lunch, not calling at 445 on a Friday. I mean, just like using common sense, and really trying to connect with somebody on the other end of the phone. We ended up getting in touch with somebody at this particular municipality. And they were a tremendous amount of help in terms of like what we needed to file. And we essentially through using Google, that came lawyers, I mean, or acted in that we were filing the type of paperwork that that an attorney would. And so was that challenging? Yes. Would I pay 10 grand to have an attorney file that on behalf of me, absolutely not, not in, in this instance, of the stakes were a little bit higher, we certainly would have considered counsel a little bit more. But again, it’s just kind of that that cost benefit. So anyway, so yeah, we’re so at this point in the story. We’ve got sued, we’ve got serve papers, and we decided that we’re going to we’re going to self represent here. Sorry to interrupt the episode, you may have heard Ken and I talking recently about a new tool that we’re using for Amazon refunds. Now I have used other refund tools like this. However, I can tell you in the first seven days, they scrubbed it, the back end of my Amazon account going back 18 months, and found $5,000 of refunds. And the nice thing about this is, it’s my money, Amazon made a mistake and they are just auditing my account. The other thing I really like about this tool is there is no monthly fee, they only charge a commission if they are successful in getting you your money. Go to catina.com GE T ID a and enter promo code FTM for firing the man FTM 400 This is an awesome tool can’t say enough good things about it. Now back to the episode. So what came next?

Ken 19:24
Yeah, sure. So that point we and again, you know, I don’t I don’t dislike attorneys. You know, attorneys serve a purpose. They trade their time for money and their time is a premium right. And so anytime you engage an attorney, the only way they’re making money is charging you what’s called billable hours. And so in David’s previous career, you know, previous life I should say he had a lot of experience with attorneys and billable hours and it’s an I’ve had some experience in my life with that and it’s not a good situation. You don’t want to see billable hours with a little x by it and then a big number behind that because you know the amount Gotta be massive right? Attorneys go to school for a long time. When they’re working, they’re wanting to get paid well for their time. And, you know, depending on the size of your company, you you will have to really think about it’s a business case, how, what kind of exposure, what kind of exposure do you have for your business with this? And what what is going to cost you, you know, and then what’s the upside, what’s the downside, and so every case is different. This isn’t legal advice. This is just the path that we chose for this specific situation. And so we decided to self represent, we, you know, we filed these forms, we pretty much got to a standstill, and we were essentially like ready to go to a trial, we essentially said, we’re this is not like what they said is not true. And here, we have all of our evidence right here. And we were about to File and go to a trial. And then it was we had David and I had another like, one on one heart to heart were like, Whoa, let’s like pause and figure this out. I said, Let me before we do this, like because we’re gonna go down a rabbit hole, go to a trial, let me this person, let’s see if we can just settle it out and get it taken care of. So and again, this person is not a bad person, I will never do business with this person, again, ever. I don’t even know that I would recommend them. But the two years prior to this person provided a great service. And he’s not a bad person. This was just this bad situation. And so I called this person up, I text him said, Hey, can we hop on a call, and gonna call this person he was also running a business and dealing with this on the other side of it. So it was taking his time away, too. And so I think anytime we we deal with the situation, I think I learned this a long time ago in psychology, if you can get inside someone else’s head of what they’re looking for what they need, things like that, you can it will help you like a solution to a problem. And so after talking with this guy, I knew he was frustrated. I knew he didn’t want to spend any more time on this. And I knew his attorney was charging him a shit ton of money because he told me and so I essentially like put a little bit of pressure on there said hey, what you know, like, what’s, what is this going to take for this to go away for none of us have to deal with it. And so we like figured it out on the phone. And pretty much that that was the end of it, we kind of talked through it and said what you know, what’s going to make you satisfied. And we hashed it out, kind of like we avoided a trial. And so we avoided all of those, like, costs all those billable hours that we were going to pull the trigger on. And it was like I remember when I after, you know, I had the conversation, I told David a conversation. This is going to be this is going to be going away. And like at that point in time, David, like when I shared that with you like how are you feeling whenever you heard that?

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David 22:41
Oh, man, I thought this was it felt great. It felt great. It seemed like like we were going to finally put this in the rearview mirror and be able to focus on business. And just to like, not to go on and on about how stressed out I was. But to kind of set the scene at that, at this point in time that this dispute starts I am less than a year out from firing the man, I would say like generally in our partnership, I kind of take care of like the paying the bills and finances. And this was something that dealt with your companies that you brought into the partnership. And so you know, there was a lot of different things that and also I’d never gone through it before. And so when we when Ken got on the phone in was the good cop, which he often is which I love him for it and reached that resolution, it was the best thing for the business. And that was, again, that was our goal. However, I can tell you that when I sent that wire over, I was still thinking in the back of my head, this is absolute horseshit. Some of this payment represents duplicate invoices. I know it and I can point to it. But again, it was we had to ask ourselves what is best for the business. And this settlement was? And so it’s interesting thinking of it on the other side lawsuits, I would say lawsuits in the five figure range. Boy, I you really pressure people into settling like even if they’re in the right, because they have to weigh out what if I hire counsel? What is the cost of my business? And so effective strategy? I mean, it worked. I’m not happy about it. But yeah, so that was the end of this story. Now, as I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, we came out on the other side of this better businessman, I truly believe that and so let’s go through some of the lessons that we learned. And and, you know, one, how would we prevent this from happening or to if it happens again?

Ken 24:37
What do we do? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. We have a list of the lessons learned here and we’re going to share them with the audience. And yeah, I would agree with David like you know, the longer you’re in business is likely going to happen and just pull try to pull the you know, the positives out of this. The first one here, phone calls are convenient, but email communication is preferred if you ever need hard Evans, hard evidence to put forth this is absolutely true. And so emails you can use as evidence in court. And so any phone calls, you’re not going to unless you have some kind of device that you’re recording and taping and it gets, it goes into like a legal like wormhole with what state you’re in and wiretap all this other garbage i, this isn’t legal advice but emails, if you’re going to have communication, use emails and then you can say those emails and pull them up, that’s definitely helpful.

David 25:26
Absolutely, we ran into this where I would hop on the phone and say, Hey, this shipment is six weeks late, what’s going on, I was told, Hey, we’re going to waive the fees for that. That’s our bed. And in that lack of documentation that is in the ass in the end. And so that’s something that as much as I love to hop on the phone on things like this, I think I’m going to use email as preferred communication going forward. So you know, I think, earlier on I think communication earlier on what helped our cause. And this is, in hindsight, I would say there was a period of time between the dispute and the lawsuit that we had kind of taken the approach of the hell with you. I mean, we’ve we have identified what we believe is fair, unless you can show us something, otherwise, we’re not going to pay it. I mean, that was just that that was our stance. And, you know, in hindsight, I think it would have been helpful to jump on a call, go through screenshare go through, you know, I spent a tremendous amount of time building a spreadsheet, and simply just sending it over, like a big complicated spreadsheet, isn’t as helpful as, like, spending a half hour and walking someone through it and saying, like, here’s what we’re seeing on our end, do you see something different? And I would imagine that that may have prevented the counterparty in this suit to not seek counsel. So can Yeah, yeah, for sure. Good?

Ken 26:50
Yeah, I think No, I totally agree. And I, in hindsight, you know, less than one of the lessons learned on our side was, like David mentioned, I think we could have communicated more earlier on, we kind of got to a standstill of like, Hey, we’re, you know, we’re in the right, we’re not going to deal with you anymore. Because you’re just not here not relevant, or you’re not providing any value here, you’re just telling us the same thing over and over. And we just pretty much stopped communication. I think, if this situation happens, again, I think we can do better there. Next one on the list is do not volunteer to be the first client of any new service for your business, no matter how much you trust the person. And this is this instance, where we have been doing business with this person for several years, had a great experience, and then all sudden, hey, by the way, I have this new service, do you want to try it out. And if I hear that, again, I’m going to run the other direction. And so this is something that we have employed sense in our businesses that if we’re looking for a new service, we evaluate multiple service providers, and we look for a historical proven success before we ever jump onto a service provider. And so this is crucial. Yeah, that was a huge lesson that we learned there. David was an excellent,

David 28:00
you know, I would say that getting sued can happen to anybody. And it kind of goes along with operating a business. I remember right in the middle of this, I was talking to one of my mentors. And they said, you know, you know, who doesn’t get sued is people that don’t have successful businesses? Because there’s, there’s nothing to go after, right? He was like, you know, look at Mark Cuban. Look at Elon Musk, you look at any successful entrepreneur, not only have they been sued, they’ve been sued a lot. And that is telling that they create value. And there are people that want to go after that value. And so, you know, to look at this through a different lens, you know, I guess good for us that we got sued. We were big enough. And I guess there was enough meat on the bone that the counterparty thought it was going to be worth it. And so yeah, I would say it can happen to anybody. And, you know, as much as I don’t want this to ever happen again, I would say, if we achieve some of our long term goals, we will probably get sued again, I think it’s just part of doing business. And you know what, next time, we’re going to be a lot more prepared for it. So yeah, what about you any other key takeaways?

Ken 29:09
Yeah, probably the next one on the list here is, it’s probably one of the most important ones that I took away from this experience. And I give David a lot of credit. And it’s, you know, when something like this happens, and you can use this on any instance, try to separate emotions for what’s best for the business. And so, when this was happening, you know, I was so fired up, you know, I wanted to take action, I wanted to, you know, like I was, we were both very fired up that first few days. And then we took the weekend to think about it and calm down. And then David came and said, hey, you know, I don’t like this as much as you do. But at the end of the day, this is a numbers game. And David always comes to the table with numbers and he was like, This is what we’re looking at, you know, if we go down this path, we’re looking at this number. If we go down this path, we’re looking at this number. And when that whenever you look at it from that aspect, it’s very it paints a very clear picture on and if you can pull the emotion A lot of it that’s going to be your path you should probably take is what’s, you know, what’s best for the business. And so yeah, that was a huge lesson learned that came out of this for me,

David 30:08
I’ll tell you going along with that, like trying to leave emotions out of decision making, I read this in a Tim Ferriss book, I don’t remember which one, but the phrase sleep on it, like if you have a big decision sleep on it, that exists in every language, like that translates in every language. And there’s a reason for that, that like, as human beings, if we have a big decision, literally sleeping on it, like taking a day, creating some separation in between you and that source of negative emotion, or in our case, the lawsuit is incredibly helpful. And I would say, when we were riding that roller coaster of emotions, I’m glad we didn’t make any decisions, like we took several days to mull over it. And I’m glad that we did that. Because the this whole story could have taken a completely different turn after one of the Zoom calls that you and I were both, you know, getting fired up about the situation. And so anyway, you know, I would say, last key takeaway is getting sued is not the end of the world. It is unfortunately part of doing business. Sometimes I can say that you kind of hedge your risk by doing business with good people. And how you find good people, good references, you know, asking around interviewing several different parties. That was something we are kind of in a pinch here with inventory restrictions. And we skip that step. We didn’t interview for several different warehouses, we were just like, we’re going with this one, because that’s the one right in front of us. And so anyway, again, I a lot of lessons to be taken out of this. And I hope that to any of our listeners, if you have been sued or you know, maybe potentially Sutent in the future, hopefully there’s something that you can take away from this, that’ll help the process.

Ken 31:53
Yeah, absolutely. And again, just wanted to echo what David mentioned, getting suits, not the other world. Just hit it head on, figure it out. There’s going to be another side to it. And so hopefully, you know, again, this is not legal advice. This David and I sharing our story, our experiences. Yeah, hopefully you get some value out of it.

David 32:09
Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. And we’ll see you next week. Thank you everyone for tuning into today’s firing the man podcast. If you liked this episode, head on over to firingtheman.com And check out our resource library for exclusive firing the man discounts on popular ecommerce subscription services that is firingtheman.com backslash resource, you can also find a comprehensive library of over 50 books that Ken and I have read in the last few years that have made a meaningful impact on our business, or that head on over to www.firingtheman.com/library Lastly, check us out on social media at firingtheman in on YouTube at firing the man for exclusive content. This is David Schomer

Ken 32:53
and Ken Wilson, we’re out

David 32:55
before you go fun fact for all you Amazon sellers out there when you start selling in international marketplaces, all of your reviews come with you. At the beginning of this year, Ken and I sat down and talked of ways that we could double our businesses in size and landed on international expansion as our number one initiative this year. We partnered up with Kevin Sanderson from maximizing ecommerce and he has made the process an absolute breeze walking us step by step through the process. If you want to grow your revenue and reach new customers head on over to https://maximizingecommerce.com/fire and connect with Kevin Sanderson today. Now back to the show.